I appriate most others in here are bigger and also registered so have

Looks like you sent yourself to sleep...

I thought his ticket expired.............but didn't like to say.

Looks like you sent yourself to sleep...

Lol!

Phone went then edit timer ran out

Lol!

Phone went then edit timer ran out

so come on then arf finish yer post

so come on then arf finish yer post

ffs don't encourage him...

during the waaaar...

ffs don't encourage him...

Indeed.

so come on then arf finish yer post

unaccustomed as i am lol!

Hi guys, I appreciate most others in here are bigger, have typists, and also registered, so have to have clear paper trail provided by software.

Looking at a different angle, you get invited to quote, turn up, do the survey, write it all up - nothing.

How annoying it is then to find the plans you have so carefully put all your time, soul and care into for free, have now been handed lock stock and barrel to a 'competitor', either on a minor price difference or quite blatantly planned.

Clients, who rightly seek competitive estimates will innocently give others site of your written designs 'to save repeating themselves', and to get like for like comparisons - like in truth few would understand what that is in real terms,.

so, if up against a lesser engineer they effectively 'steal' your knowhow and experience in design having done all the in depth discussions, get advantage from your groundwork.

If they don't choose you because of dislike, or feel another would suit them better thats fine, imho it just feels like deliberate theft otherwise, just like someone who deliberately eats at a restaurant knowing beforehand they won't pay, which is called 'taking pecuniary advantage' (i thiink) like bilking fuel, less politely put - taking the pi$$.

Whatever, It is a serious cost in time just travelling, often out of office hours, perhaps an hour getting there, 1 1/2 hours talking through (larger house), write it up, perhaps another visit as 1st time you only see the wife, now hubby wants his say - i'm sure most will have this tea shirt - many times.

I used to give a full description in the estimate, each item, model, exact location, height and item price, now to reduce wasted time (and client fatigue if genuine clients), i simply list detector amounts, to which rooms, how many keypads, ewd's contacts using RingItUp - an iPAD app, and i think also an Android app. I call it a 'Preface Estimate'. If i hear no more, thats life but i have saved a heck of a lot of wasted time and not aided a competitor or local spark much .

If they initially accept the price and send a deposit to show genuine interest, they get the full spec to agree in detail (i refund if they don't then feel happy), most i find just ask me to get on with it asap.

The above is used mainly on the bigger works, new clients where there is no chain of trust ir from recommendation, i.e.no prior history.

Likely the above will not sit with the inspectorates, but i won't loose much money or any sleep over that concern .

There is a Part B to this, a while back in here it was highlighted that as a trade pro, you advise a new acquaintance on their system design 'fag box' fashion. You don't get the job, a sparks fits it as bunce. no money changes hands. They get broken into, in a room are valuable's you know nothing about, is taken, but not detected due to no detector.

You are liable for loss for that design in law, for not having exercised due professional diligence.

Crazy? Absolutely, but if true every time you offer your specifications, seems you are liable if you get the job or not!

Discuss (if your still awake )

WOW i did NOT read that sorry too busy....

WOW i did NOT read that sorry too busy....

Is that what the bank manager said when you sent in your overdraft application?