thorfun Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Hi all, i've been researching Wireless alarms and came across this forum and I have done quite a lot of reading on here and this seems to be the place to go for good advice! i know there are other "which wireless alarm" threads and I hope that you guys aren't completely sick of these just yet and are good to give a bit more advice. I have got 4 quotes from NSI approved companies and, if we ignore costs for the moment, I wanted some advice on which hardware would be the best to go for out of the following: Visonic PowerMax Scantronic ion-16 Pyronix Enforcer I'm sure each has it's good and bad points and it's really hard to know which is the best system as I have no experience in alarms! it's for a residential new build and I'll be looking to have 4 x door contacts and 5 x PIRs in the house with the option to zone the system so that i can arm the door contacts and leave the PIRs disarmed at night to allow free movement for the family at night time to keep the perimeter secure and then do a full arm of the entire system when the house is empty. we don't currently have any pets but the chances are we will be getting a cat and a dog at some point in the near future. from the reading I've done I am leaning towards a 2-way RF system in which case that would be the Enforcer. But, is it as simple as that? is it a case of don't bother with 1-way RF alarms? in which case this is a simple choice! if not, what do the other 2 offer to make them better than the 2-way Enforcer system? reliability? i'm not so fussed about the aesthetics of the panel as it will be hidden away under the stairs but I've read that the PIRs and Door contacts on the Pyronix are larger than the other makes. is the size difference substantial to make them an eye sore or are we talking about small margins here? I hope you can shed some sage advice and many thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adi Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Enforcer for me. Quote I really can't be ar**** with it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lwillis Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) Personally I'd go for a galaxy with RF gear but out of those 3 Id say enforcer. 2 way is usually better. Which company did you feel most comfatable with? What are their call out rates like? It's not all about the cheapest at the point of install. Did any of them after remote assistance facility's? Also I'd reccomend getting quotes from SSAIB company's aswell both nsi and SSAIB are insurance approved and if you are putting the alarm system on your insurance run the system design proposal by them aswell. Some insurance offer a discount for an alarm system under a maintenance contract by an approved company Edited December 10, 2013 by Lwillis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorfun Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 Enforcer for me. Thanks Adi. is that due to the 2-way RF in particular or do you feel it's just a better system in general? Personally I'd go for a galaxy with RF gear but out of those 3 Id say enforcer. 2 way is usually better. Which company did you feel most comfatable with? What are their call out rates like? It's not all about the cheapest at the point of install. Did any of them after remote assistance facility's? who makes the Galaxy? as i guess i could go back to the company i like the most and ask if they'd install and support it! i did get various "feelings" about the guys who came around and that will influence my decision as will the cost but, i'm just looking at a technology perspective at the moment. one company said that if i needed something re-programmed then they would come out without charge etc. and I will factor all that in in the end. i'm putting cost near the bottom of the importance for the moment though as i don't mind paying more for better technology. if that makes sense! thanks for the responses so far guys. really appreciate the assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I hope that you guys aren't completely sick of these just yet and are good to give a bit more advice. I have got 4 quotes from NSI approved companies and, if we ignore costs for the moment, I wanted some advice on which hardware would be the best to go for out of the following No definitely not. It's nice to have someone asking sensible honest questions here. Normally it's "I broke my alarm help me fix it now for nothing"...anyway... --- Obviously 2 way wireless is better than 1 way but the cost will be greater, you will be able to see this from the costs in the quotes. It all depends on the risk of the property. The main pro to the 2 way is the added security of knowing your signals have been received at the panel. Also faults will be displayed instantly whereas on a 1 way a fault may take several hours to appear depending on polling times etc. I think our resident JW put it best... Think of 1 way as standard Royal Mail and 2 way as Recorded delivery. Most of the time 1 way works but is that really great for a security system?If something important gets lost in the post you'll wish you had sent it recorded. Also not included in your OP is 2 way wireless mesh like the Texecom Ricochet range. This "mesh" means the sensors can talk to each other not just the panel. However, in smaller houses you could there is no benefit to this. Other pros are 2 way can benefit from greater battery life due to the panel being able to put sensors to sleep while disarmed and switch LED's on and off remotely. Not all 2 way panels will do this but it's possible so bear it in mind. The kit should be equally as reliable from a parts going faulty POV, some alarm companies prefer certain manufacturers over others. Personally I'd look at the Texecom 12-W, for example. As for size of the devices that's personal preference, have you not had a company round with a demo kit to see the devices in the flesh? I would want to see the property before quoting to assess the risk, it's ok to give an estimate over the phone but you could be over looking something. i'm putting cost near the bottom of the importance for the moment though as i don't mind paying more for better technology. if that makes sense!Very sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorfun Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 Obviously 2 way wireless is better than 1 way but the cost will be greater, you will be able to see this from the costs in the quotes. It all depends on the risk of the property. you might have thought that but the quote for the ion-16 came in substantially higher than a quote for the Enforcer! which, with the ion only being 1-way, has meant that i've pretty much already discounted that company. Also not included in your OP is 2 way wireless mesh like the Texecom Ricochet range. This "mesh" means the sensors can talk to each other not just the panel. However, in smaller houses you could there is no benefit to this. it's a four bedroom house. not massive (about 1800sqft) so probably not big enough for this "mesh" technology. The kit should be equally as reliable from a parts going faulty POV, some alarm companies prefer certain manufacturers over others. Personally I'd look at the Texecom 12-W, for example. I'll research the Texecom 12-W and see if someone would be willing to fit it or find a local company that work with Texecom as a preferred manufacturer. thanks for the tip. As for size of the devices that's personal preference, have you not had a company round with a demo kit to see the devices in the flesh? yes. one of the companies brought the Enforcer panel and PIRs around and they didn't seem excessively large at all. bigger than the wired PIRs in our current house but i guess that's to be expected. He didn't have any door contacts with him though. maybe if i decide to go with the Enforcer then I should ask to see the door contacts first to make sure they're not going to be too intrusive. thanks for your long and detailed response. I understand the benefits of 2-way RF which is why i was leaning that way and it's nice to get another recommendation for a wireless 2-way system. oh, btw, i notice on the Visonic website that their PowerMaster systems using their PowerG technology appear to be 2-way RF systems. as one of the companies are offering Visonic kit i wonder if i could ask them about that system instead of the PowerMax. any comments on the PowerMaster (using PowerG technology!) systems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorfun Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 after a quick google on the Texecom 12-W i see that it IS the Ricochet range so it IS the "mesh" technology! still....i will ask around and do some more research on it as the tech sounds cool and I like cool tech. thanks again Mr. Beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Id recommend the siemens or hkc wireless. Both are 2 way but i find the siemens a much more flexible product. The enforcer is a low cost system with a since combined panel so on low end signalling is vulnerable to attack. Better stuff has a seperate end station which has the brains and signalling bits with a separate keypad. The only advantage to combining the 2 (as with the enforcer and the power max) is to save cost Also ensure your chosen company can fully support the equipment. Anyone can fit any equipment but training and backup requires more than a passing knowledge Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 after a quick google on the Texecom 12-W i see that it IS the Ricochet range so it IS the "mesh" technology! still....i will ask around and do some more research on it as the tech sounds cool and I like cool tech. thanks again Mr. Beast. I wouldn't rule out Texe just because you feel your house is 'too small' - its still a great system, and well manufactured. With 9 devices or so. the mesh should have plenty to work with! Plus, the Texe 12W has 4 on board wired zones which might be useful. The HKC and Siemens are good too, although you might have to look around a bit to find a Siemens installer! I always bring demo kit to customers myself, I know some think its a bit old-school but from a customer point of view that's exactly what I'd want - to see what I'm getting not just a scruffy piece of paper with a single figure on it. And as everyone said, don't just go with the cheapest - use the company that you feel the most happy with, and do invite some SSAIB companies to quote for comparison. Also be aware some advice is for your benefit, not just to make more money for the company! For example, the number of times I've been told "we want to save a bit of money, so don't think we need those detectors upstairs" is a good example. It's only when I explain without them, a burglar could, for example, be straight through the door, up the stairs, and not have to worry about an alarm, let alone a confirmed alarm, for a good 20 seconds it hits home. Good luck! Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorfun Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 Id recommend the siemens or hkc wireless. Both are 2 way but i find the siemens a much more flexible product. The enforcer is a low cost system with a since combined panel so on low end signalling is vulnerable to attack. Better stuff has a seperate end station which has the brains and signalling bits with a separate keypad. The only advantage to combining the 2 (as with the enforcer and the power max) is to save costAlso ensure your chosen company can fully support the equipment. Anyone can fit any equipment but training and backup requires more than a passing knowledge Thanks. Great info and advice and I'll look into those products too. I get the feeling I will be getting more quotes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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