Jump to content
Security Installer Community

Panel Schematic?


Gabs

Recommended Posts

Does anyone have, or know where I can get a schematic for any alarm panel, (Preferably ADE), reason for me asking, I am very interested in engineering and how these panels were designed.I was thinking about making my own panel, using an ATMEL microprocessor, and a custom made PCB. I was mainly interested in seeing how the zones and inputs are connected to the main microprocessor of the control panel (Picture shows what I am assuming to be the PIC microcontroller of an Accenta G3) I'm also interested din the software that the alarm panels run as well, so if anyone knows a little about how they are programmed and what language is used, I'd really appreciate it :) 

 

Thanks In Advance :) 

IMG_6254.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While old schematics maybe interesting it's unlikely you will find any available, they are normally kept in house.

Very few engineers would repair down to component level and manufacturers would prefer to keep there designs to themselves.

Unless you specifically want to work with ATMEL or PIC's, you could make something with basic components or use a relatively low cost SBC to interface with sensors on GPIO.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For various reasons I bought a 6 zone alarm PCB 'kit' for my narrowboat (mainly related to wanting a low current panel with multiple latching zones that ran off 12V without looking for a 50hz signal to run a clock).

 

I am pretty sure it came with a comprehensive description and everything, like these kind of kits do.

 

Googling should find it.

So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies, I just thought using a micro-controller may have been easier than using more passive components, such as individual logic ICs. 

5 hours ago, datadiffusion said:

For various reasons I bought a 6 zone alarm PCB 'kit' for my narrowboat (mainly related to wanting a low current panel with multiple latching zones that ran off 12V without looking for a 50hz signal to run a clock).

 

I am pretty sure it came with a comprehensive description and everything, like these kind of kits do.

 

Googling should find it.

 

What sort of kit was it? I'd be interested to know, and maybe try to build one. The description part also sounds helpful 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Gabs said:

Thanks for the replies, I just thought using a micro-controller may have been easier than using more passive components, such as individual logic ICs.

 

It's all relative on what your trying to make and for what application.

I have made alarm circuits on stripboard before, they where designed specifically for minimal standby current.

In essence it's basic logic, you have inputs and outputs, the more you want to do with it, the more processing you need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, datadiffusion said:

For various reasons I bought a 6 zone alarm PCB 'kit' for my narrowboat (mainly related to wanting a low current panel with multiple latching zones that ran off 12V without looking for a 50hz signal to run a clock).

 

I am pretty sure it came with a comprehensive description and everything, like these kind of kits do.

 

Googling should find it.

What reasons?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Presumably still uses custom IC's though?

 

Pretty sure even the CPA2 panel had a custom IC in it (possibly just for speaker sounds / tones though).

 

As for my 6 zone electronics kit (actually might have been 5), google is your friend (I forget the make), though you'll have to wade through all the basic 1 zone ones :(

Edited by datadiffusion

So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MrHappy said:

I'd thought a keen young mind would be able to copy an old logic 4 or similar ?

I actually have just got a Logic 4, it looks really quite complex, I could give it a go, but I am not sure if it would work. 

 

2 hours ago, datadiffusion said:

Presumably still uses custom IC's though?

 

Pretty sure even the CPA2 panel had a custom IC in it (possibly just for speaker sounds / tones though).

 

As for my 6 zone electronics kit (actually might have been 5), google is your friend (I forget the make), though you'll have to wade through all the basic 1 zone ones :(

 

Here are the 4 ICs in the Logic 4, not sure if any are custom made for ADE, would anyone else know? If not, there is a chance I will try to make/copy the board traces for the Logic 4

2 hours ago, Nova-Security said:

before you start with PICs you need to look at the basics.

 

http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/ronj/mba.html

 

I'll have a look at that, thanks :) 

IMG_6253.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RonJ has some good schematics on his site I have used some of them before.

From what you say in your posts you seem interested in the electronics but never build much before?

 If this is the case take a look at Ron's smaller and simpler transistor circuits first, before you build up to the modular one posted.

 

The IC's are all pretty standard CMOS 4xxx Series, cheap and easy to pick up. I wouldn't start reverse engineering a Logic 4 as your first project tho.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, just 4000 series chips. Pretty old technology and similar to the circuits posted earlier, but will give you a better understanding of the electronics if you can build and debug the circuit.

 

The microprocessor based stuff these days works by multiplexed analog to digital conversion. The zones are analog potential dividers, with the resulting voltage (from the zone) being converted to digital and read by the CPU.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree with SWB. Learn basic electronics. Transistors, gates, flip flops, RC timers, Etc. There used to be project kits with many circuit possibilities years ago - they were basic, but very good. The Tandy 200 in 1 was my dream x-mas present when I was 9 y/o.  I don't think I ever played with any toy more than that. :)

 

After that, skip the alarm circuit and jump to Raspberry Pi I/O.  You'll find it easier to learn/modify programming rather than the example alarm circuits, but you still need the grounding (no pun intended) in basic electronics.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, GalaxyGuy said:

Agree with SWB. Learn basic electronics. Transistors, gates, flip flops, RC timers, Etc.

After that, skip the alarm circuit and jump to Raspberry Pi I/O.  You'll find it easier to learn/modify programming rather than the example alarm circuits, but you still need the grounding (no pun intended) in basic electronics.

 

Exactly, just like I said in my first post. It's good to have knowledge of the basics, so start small but also consider tech moves on.

Back when Logic 4's where designed a office desktop computer had less power than a SBC's you can buy now. A RPi3 is about £30, wouldn't like to guess what a P5 Pentium system or the like would have cost.

The other benefit is if you get bored of the project you can easily repurpose the SBC for the next project.

 

If you are really interested in making up some circuits maybe try some basic timer circuits to start, 555 timers are normally good to cut your teeth on.

They are very easy to build a working project and if wired in the different modes, give good understanding of RC networks, transistors and logic level.

This is assuming you are starting from minimal electronics knowledge of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gabs said:

Here are the 4 ICs in the Logic 4, not sure if any are custom made for ADE, would anyone else know? If not, there is a chance I will try to make/copy the board traces for the Logic 4

IMG_6253.JPG

 

Interesting,  simpler in number and function than I'd ever imagined.

 

When I started in this lark you could still buy the Logic 4, but the multizone LCD path was one the Co I worked took from the outset, thankfully.

 

Otherwise as above basics then look up a few circuits to build yourself. You'll probably find one of those 200-in1 electronics type kits on eBay for pennies.

So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

RonJ has some good schematics on his site I have used some of them before.

From what you say in your posts you seem interested in the electronics but never build much before?

 If this is the case take a look at Ron's smaller and simpler transistor circuits first, before you build up to the modular one posted.

 

The IC's are all pretty standard CMOS 4xxx Series, cheap and easy to pick up. I wouldn't start reverse engineering a Logic 4 as your first project tho.

 

 

Wow, thanks for the replies guys :) I will look on his site, I actually have been using and learning with my Arduino Microcontroller, in this picture, it is connected to my Accenta G3, I made a Mission Impossible stile beam break detector hooked up to Zone 4, so an instant alarm when set. I will have a go at some projects from his site tomorrow before I take on the Logic 4, which was probably designed by an engineer with a lot more experience than 16 year old me :) I have built sme things, I etch my own PCBs as well, to put my very small projects on. I'll also add a picture of a PCB that I have made, it was designed to be an LED version of a Airbus A320 wing strobe 

1 hour ago, GalaxyGuy said:

No, just 4000 series chips. Pretty old technology and similar to the circuits posted earlier, but will give you a better understanding of the electronics if you can build and debug the circuit.

 

The microprocessor based stuff these days works by multiplexed analog to digital conversion. The zones are analog potential dividers, with the resulting voltage (from the zone) being converted to digital and read by the CPU.

 

Ah, the microprocessor stuff does sound much more complex, I'll stick to the basic ICs for now :) And let my knowledge rise first. 

1 hour ago, GalaxyGuy said:

Agree with SWB. Learn basic electronics. Transistors, gates, flip flops, RC timers, Etc. There used to be project kits with many circuit possibilities years ago - they were basic, but very good. The Tandy 200 in 1 was my dream x-mas present when I was 9 y/o.  I don't think I ever played with any toy more than that. :)

 

After that, skip the alarm circuit and jump to Raspberry Pi I/O.  You'll find it easier to learn/modify programming rather than the example alarm circuits, but you still need the grounding (no pun intended) in basic electronics.

 

I actually have a kit similar to the Tandy one, it was my Dad's he gave to me at quite a young age, before I started messing on with proper alarm panels. I have an Arduino microcontroller, which I made wok with my ADE simple set reader, which as fun, thy worked together really well, making the Arduino control a siren, depending on the relay state of the set reader. 

45 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

 

Exactly, just like I said in my first post. It's good to have knowledge of the basics, so start small but also consider tech moves on.

Back when Logic 4's where designed a office desktop computer had less power than a SBC's you can buy now. A RPi3 is about £30, wouldn't like to guess what a P5 Pentium system or the like would have cost.

The other benefit is if you get bored of the project you can easily repurpose the SBC for the next project.

 

If you are really interested in making up some circuits maybe try some basic timer circuits to start, 555 timers are normally good to cut your teeth on.

They are very easy to build a working project and if wired in the different modes, give good understanding of RC networks, transistors and logic level.

This is assuming you are starting from minimal electronics knowledge of course.

 

I know, I would be quite interested actually o see how the Logic 4 and Optimas were designed, the PCBs have quite clearly been designed by a computer program, although I do not know of any PCB design programs existing back in the early 1990s. I have just ordered 50 555 timer chips, so hopefully I'll be able to design something good with them, and other chips I have. 

IMG_6257.JPG

IMG_6246.JPG

36 minutes ago, datadiffusion said:

 

Interesting,  simpler in number and function than I'd ever imagined.

 

When I started in this lark you could still buy the Logic 4, but the multizone LCD path was one the Co I worked took from the outset, thankfully.

 

Otherwise as above basics then look up a few circuits to build yourself. You'll probably find one of those 200-in1 electronics type kits on eBay for pennies.

I guess they were designed with simplicity for the user in mind, that's what I like about ADE, nothing is ever too hard to do on their panels. 

How much was the Logic 4 at the time? 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, norman said:

@Gabs I'll have a look in my garage tomorrow, I'm sure I have some bits and pieces that you could make use of. When I've checked I'll pm you. You can have them foc of course. 

ill have a look, i might have some old f130's etc.

good to see a keen mind

  • Upvote 1

securitywarehouse https://store.securitywarehouse.co.uk

Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, datadiffusion said:

Are you seriously going to post this poor guy some dried up tins of paint and a few late 80s 'Razzles'?

He could watch it dry whilst reading your witty repartee. 

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, MrHappy said:

 

late 80's / early 90's £34+vat or there abouts ?

Cheaper than the Accentas then. I can see why it cost that, I guess a lot of thinking and design went in to it. 

 

11 hours ago, norman said:

@Gabs I'll have a look in my garage tomorrow, I'm sure I have some bits and pieces that you could make use of. When I've checked I'll pm you. You can have them foc of course. 

 

Thanks, that'd be great. I always have this tab open, so I'll just check my PM every now and again. 

9 hours ago, james.wilson said:

ill have a look, i might have some old f130's etc.

good to see a keen mind

 

Thanks, I have always been interested in this sort of stuff, I was thinking of building something like this http://www.bentleysecurity.com/ that my be more simple.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Gabs said:

Cheaper than the Accentas then. I can see why it cost that, I guess a lot of thinking and design went in to it.

 

Its was very basic & rather cheap, its along time ago but IIRC most where metal boxed & quite bit dearer

 

2 minutes ago, Gabs said:

Thanks, I have always been interested in this sort of stuff, I was thinking of building something like this http://www.bentleysecurity.com/ that my be more simple.  

 

lol

 

A name that has been associated with the security industry for over 50 years.



Bentley innovated most of the features that have become industry standards, and also brought to the industry standards of manufacture that were comparable with the military.

Some of our innovative ideas and practices include:

• The first security control panel designed for home use painted in acceptable colours

• First control panel with fused outputs and dedicated exit route

• First integrated control panel and sounder

• First micro processor control panel – widely used by foreign royalty and high profile customers

• First manufacturer of relay modules and special purpose timers

• Smallest mass inertia radio shock sensor

• “Marken” tamper protection – method of achieving front and back tamper protection with one switch and no springs

Supplier of specialist solutions for industry – you bring the problem, we find the solution – whose core strategy is focused on manufacturing products that truly stand the test of time.

Bentley will continue to strive to bring the highest level of quality and innovation to all or our products, along with solutions to meet your security problems.

Mr😀 Veritas God

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.