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Reddwarf4ever

Gardtec 840 removing smoke alarms from panel and program

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Posted (edited)

 

Hi

i want to remove the 8 smoke alarms I have wire to the system, they are long out of date and want to replace them with standalone smoke alarms.

 

i will need to disconnect them from the alarm panel and most likely from the program via the keypad.

 

i have the engineer code, wonder if it’s obvious where the smoke alarm connections would be as a starting point.

 

thanks

PS the alarm manual says the smoke detectors at zones 12-16 inclusive

Edited by Reddwarf4ever
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26 minutes ago, Reddwarf4ever said:

 

Hi

i want to remove the 8 smoke alarms I have wire to the system, they are long out of date and want to replace them with standalone smoke alarms.

 

i will need to disconnect them from the alarm panel and most likely from the program via the keypad.

 

i have the engineer code, wonder if it’s obvious where the smoke alarm connections would be as a starting point.

 

thanks

PS the alarm manual says the smoke detectors at zones 12-16 inclusive

Make zones spare or unused 

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Sorry that answer didn’t really address my concerns

 

Hi

 

i have the engineer,installation & user manuals, so will be able to remove the required zones, although if anyone knows the exact steps to remove zones would save me trawling through the manuals.

 

as I need to physically remove the smoke alarms from the ceiling , to replace with standalone smoke alarms, I need to isolate or terminate the power supplies to each.

 

unless I can easily determine where on the panel the power supplies are taken from, I plan to remove each alarm in turn and terminate the cabling with a connecting block or tape them up and push the cable into the ceiling space through the existing hole. Once done, I can then remove them from the programming.

 

i am not just being a cheapskate, but am a pensioner on a very low budget and certainly can’t afford £200 Hr which the installer company want to charge me, worse still they can’t give me any idea of the time it will take......bit like a blank cheque .

 

so hopefully someone can read what I need to do and advise me.

 

thank you in advance

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Removing Zones
(Master & Main codes only)
If programmed by the installation company individual zones may be removed, this may only be done by a Master or Main level of code. It should be noted that if an Area Main code is being used, only zones associated with that area may be removed.
1) With the display showing:-
2) Enter a Master or Main level code, the display will show:-
(User Names on 816 & 840 Only)
3) Press NO, the display will show:-
4) Press YES, the display will show:-
5) Enter the zone number you wish to remove followed by YES (pressing
NO will 'un-remove' a zone), the display will show:-
6) Repeat step 5 until you have removed all the required zones.
7) Press 0 to escape, the display will show:-
8) Press YES, the continuous exit tone will sound.
9) Exit the premises via the authorised
exit route ( the exit tone will change as detectors are violated). When the premises are secure
listen that the exit tone returns to the continuous tone. Wait until the exit tone finishes before leaving.


Note: Zone remove is only effective for the one set.

so the procedure seems straightforward enough, bit what does the line above mean ? Does it mean this is only temporary ?

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Why remove them if they work? Surely it would be more sensible to replace them if you need.

Alarm company are unlikely to be impressed if you remove stuff, you also risk the possibly of having no alarm at all if you can't remove them correctly.

RE call out would be 1-2 hours work I imagine.

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Posted (edited)

Removing the existing smokes from the alarm in favour of stand-alone, battery operated detectors is a backwards step.

The existing detection is designed to warn not only the occupants of the house that there's a fire but also neighbours etc via the external sounder, so hopefully they can call the fire brigade. I'd imagine a system that size would be monitored by an ARC as well, so yet another way of calling the brigade whether your home or away.

Stand-alone detectors will inform you of a fire if your there but if a fire breaks out when your not there, no one will know.

If the system is under a maintenance contract, you'll no doubt invalidate that by tampering with the system.

Edited by Specialist

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6 hours ago, Reddwarf4ever said:

Sorry that answer didn’t really address my concerns

 

Hi

 

i have the engineer,installation & user manuals, so will be able to remove the required zones, although if anyone knows the exact steps to remove zones would save me trawling through the manuals.

 

as I need to physically remove the smoke alarms from the ceiling , to replace with standalone smoke alarms, I need to isolate or terminate the power supplies to each.

 

unless I can easily determine where on the panel the power supplies are taken from, I plan to remove each alarm in turn and terminate the cabling with a connecting block or tape them up and push the cable into the ceiling space through the existing hole. Once done, I can then remove them from the programming.

 

i am not just being a cheapskate, but am a pensioner on a very low budget and certainly can’t afford £200 Hr which the installer company want to charge me, worse still they can’t give me any idea of the time it will take......bit like a blank cheque .

 

so hopefully someone can read what I need to do and advise me.

 

thank you in advance

Yes it does lol

 

Make zones unused or spare , then flaff around with it and hop you don't blow a fuse or something

 

On a side note put linked smokes and you can still link it to the alarm 

 

Doing above means you can remove all of them leave cables as is , protect all the ends incase you have them put back 

 

And then fit whatever junk you want 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Reddwarf4ever said:

200 Hr which the installer company want to charge me, worse still they can’t give me any idea of the time it will take......bit like a blank cheque .

 

 

200 pennies per hour is cheap

 

Stop blagging 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Reddwarf4ever said:

i am not just being a cheapskate, but am a pensioner on a very low budget

 

Bugger me I'm getting old

 

When I first discovered t'interwebs a username containing 'red dwarf' usually denoted a spotty 15 year old herbert

 

now its the mark of a penniless pensioner :)

 

but seriously, no really, I agree - replacing with battery devices is a backwards step.

 

Even nest ones as they are designed to be binned in ten years, they simply refuse to work past their tenth anniversary.

 

If you think you have the skills to reprog the unit, which you may have, or not, who knows, whats stopping you replacing the smokes?

 

You'll actually find 12v smoke detectors CHEAPER than decent quality mains+battery Aicos for a start, and the wiring and panel area already in place, so...

Edited by datadiffusion
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So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

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1 hour ago, al-yeti said:

Yes it does lol

 

Make zones unused or spare , then flaff around with it and hop you don't blow a fuse or something

 

On a side note put linked smokes and you can still link it to the alarm 

 

Doing above means you can remove all of them leave cables as is , protect all the ends incase you have them put back 

 

And then fit whatever junk you want 

 

 

Probably cheap £4.99 battery only detectors, he's already said that he's on a tight budget so they sure won't be Mains / Battery & seriously doubtful that they'll be linked.


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1 hour ago, al-yeti said:

200 pennies per hour is cheap

 

Stop blagging 

£200 an hour is cheap ? :o. I seriously need to change areas, down here they bitch at £45.00 callouts.


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25 minutes ago, james.wilson said:

200 pennies ie 2 quid

Haha he didn't notice 

 

Top house basher 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, al-yeti said:

Haha he didn't notice 

 

Top house basher. Get it right al, Bungalow basher if you don't mind:whistle::).

Yep I noticed, just thought you'd maybe made a mistake ;).

Edited by Specialist

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Sent a long reply, which I assume needs moderating before it’s posted.

have contacted a different alarm company, who helped me out some years ago when the PSU failed on the main board and a repair was made.

 

he is coming Monday, £75 + VAT for an hour, which he said will be ample time to remove the zones and remove the wiring from the alarm panel......job done.....I am sure it’s not beyond me, but can’t fund the option in engineer mode to remove the zones, so will bite the bullet and pay to have it done.

 

thanks for all the advice....

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Posted (edited)

Why are you disconnecting the original smokes ?. Really makes no sense, are they causing problems or have some failed ?. 

You really are downgrading your fire protection by a huge amount. Hope for your sake you don't have a fire.

You can actually buy a half decent spec smoke detector that's compatible with most alarms for less than £15.00 each.

Edited by Specialist

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

Still missing something here, why disconnect them in the first place?

Quote he has probably is costing more than standalones, so he probably thinking get rid them as he doesn't want extra ones on ceiling , then goes buys £5 smokes which still works out cheaper all the smokes plus the £75+vat , than having them replaced, system tested and so on 

Edited by al-yeti
Brexit

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£5 smokes are going to be ionisation which may not be the same or the correct type of detection.

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2 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

Still missing something here, why disconnect them in the first place?

Question has been raised several times but still not answered. I sure wouldn't want my fire safety to be reliant on cheap tat detectors.


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Posted (edited)

Hello

my alarm system and Smoke detectors are 25 years old, I have been told max life for smokes is 7 years, that’s why I am removing them, I plan to fit standalone fire angel dual detection smoke alarms, as recommended by the fire brigade.

 

currently deciding whether to replace a ‘ repaired’ control panel, two keypads & two wired bell boxes .....and keeping the existing hall sounder 8 PIR’s and 3 contacts...

 

because if I have the control panel replaced, the smokes will be removed in the process and save paying for the smokes to be removed now and later an Upgrade......

 

this is from my original install company ( who charge £200 / Hr )

 

The Main control panel we now use is a Pyronix Euro 46 8 zone control panel, For a Pyronix Euro 46 panel, keypad and battery you are looking at £300 fitted, extra keypads cost £80, Live bell boxes cost £120 Everything is plus VAT......so would be £620 plus VAT. = £744.....( looking at the wording, there may be extra labour to fit the extra keypad and bell boxes, starting to get expensive )

 

still waiting for the quote from the other alarm company who charge £85 / Hr....this company got me out of trouble once by repairing a blown PSU in my control panel.....wasn’t very expensive as I remember....and done some tidying of the programming......stopped part set making so many beeps before activating etc etc....so,I trust them.

Edited by Reddwarf4ever

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Most manufacturers of detectors set a 10 year life expectancy, however they should be functionally tested regularly (a test button is not functional test).

You would be lucky to get 4 years out of a Fire Angel and then they are for the bin.

If you replaced the smokes for a modern type something like an Aico you could keep the alarm connection, have stand alone sounding and be able to swap the heads in the future.

I would say the only issue you have is the smokes are so old you can't get replacement heads for them.

All of this doesn't consider regular testing that you would get from having smokes connected to the alarm on a service, you wouldn't have that with the Fire Angels.

 

 

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Do the aico ones have dual detection, heat plus ionising ? May consider replacing with mains ones, will see how much the alarm company want for them, but would prefer dual detection......

thanks

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Optical is more of a general purpose detector, ionisation would be more suited to bedrooms heat for kitchens and garages. Ionisation normally have a lower life expectancy.

Mains ones could get expensive. Would use 180 Series myself.

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