Hi Nova security,

 

Yes, we received a PSTN line fault close to the time of closing up the shop. We contacted ARC at that time who were able to issue us with a code to set the system as it was in fault.

 

Soon after, I received another automated text to say we still had a fault. I drove past the shop (I live 2 roads away) and found all to be well and issued an all clear. To be honest, we've had many line faults over the years and this one was nothing new. More importantly, the ARC received a confirmed intruder via the Dualcom and didn't act accordingly. They made contact with the Police and then a second later cancelled the request. That's the one thing we can't get our head around. I'm not an engineer or an installer to any degree, purely an end user trying to piece this thing together. 

 

This all boils down to trying to read the panel memory still. I believe it holds a lot of answers. I still think it might be worth someone's time to see if they can connect to it. Can anyone do this or recommend someone that can?

2 hours ago, Shaun Kamal said:

Hi Nova security,

 

Yes, we received a PSTN line fault close to the time of closing up the shop. We contacted ARC at that time who were able to issue us with a code to set the system as it was in fault.

 

Soon after, I received another automated text to say we still had a fault. I drove past the shop (I live 2 roads away) and found all to be well and issued an all clear. To be honest, we've had many line faults over the years and this one was nothing new. More importantly, the ARC received a confirmed intruder via the Dualcom and didn't act accordingly. They made contact with the Police and then a second later cancelled the request. That's the one thing we can't get our head around. I'm not an engineer or an installer to any degree, purely an end user trying to piece this thing together. 

 

This all boils down to trying to read the panel memory still. I believe it holds a lot of answers. I still think it might be worth someone's time to see if they can connect to it. Can anyone do this or recommend someone that can?

Why did they cancel request? Because system was opened ? Did they switch it off or your saying ripping off wall did that

 

I would have thought if panel has been dead since, power up and retrieve log simple , any company possibly 

Ripping it off the wall seems to have sent open, so yes they will have then cancelled police as a miss op. 

4 hours ago, norman said:

Ripping it off the wall seems to have sent open, so yes they will have then cancelled police as a miss op. 

qfa

21 hours ago, al-yeti said:

Why did they cancel request? Because system was opened ? Did they switch it off or your saying ripping off wall did that

 

I would have thought if panel has been dead since, power up and retrieve log simple , any company possibly 

The system open was received but NOT by the following:-

 

Keypad code entry or fobs - the system was opened before the intruders got into the room that had the only one keypad in the premises. The evidence within the log shows that 3 detectors needed to be triggered before someone actually got to the keypad (1 x mag contact and 2 x PIRs), none were working and thus not recorded in the log as the panel was dead by then.

 

More likely:-

 

The panel was pulled from the wall and somehow the ARC recorded this as an open. This could then point to either the Dualcom signalling system being at fault, ARC's systems misinterpreting a signal or pure negligence by any human intervention. 

 

I'll leave you all in peace for now! I've been ringing around today to see if anyone could read the panel with no luck. Maybe we'll have better luck tomorrow.

All the best.

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by Shaun Kamal

39 minutes ago, Shaun Kamal said:

The panel was pulled from the wall and somehow the ARC recorded this as an open. This could then point to either the Dualcom signalling system being at fault, ARC's systems misinterpreting a signal or pure negligence by any human intervention. 

 

The ARC recorded this as an Open due to being sent an Open signal.

The operator/ARC stood down the confirmed due to receiving an open with restores to the other signals.

I don't know the panel well but if it's volatile memory with a coin battery like someone mentioned above then your not going to get any information from it.

 

We had this happen on one of our sites, the open and close signals work on voltage applied to close, meaning when the wire applying voltage is removed from the signalling unit it sends an open signal. 

 

Its a problem with older kit that uses pins, it relies on a voltage for the closed signal, the intruders got lucky by removing the panel and not removing the panel and the signalling equipment. 

 

We now make sure the signaling equipment on older systems is either mounted within the controls or, has voltage removed to close, so if the panel is removed the signaling doesnt go open.

 

I think it very unlikely that you will be successful sueing your security company, the system did what it was supposed to do, but it was sabotaged. There is never any guarantee that the system cannot be compromised in some way.  

1 hour ago, PeterJames said:

We had this happen on one of our sites, the open and close signals work on voltage applied to close, meaning when the wire applying voltage is removed from the signalling unit it sends an open signal. 

 

Its a problem with older kit that uses pins, it relies on a voltage for the closed signal, the intruders got lucky by removing the panel and not removing the panel and the signalling equipment. 

 

We now make sure the signaling equipment on older systems is either mounted within the controls or, has voltage removed to close, so if the panel is removed the signaling doesnt go open.

 

I think it very unlikely that you will be successful sueing your security company, the system did what it was supposed to do, but it was sabotaged. There is never any guarantee that the system cannot be compromised in some way.  

I don't get it 

 

How something like this overlooked by regs or nsi or ssaib 

 

Or is it g2 that's why , and g3 G4 this would never occur meaning on older equipment , I suppose older equipment would have to be upgraded?

10 hours ago, al-yeti said:

I don't get it 

 

How something like this overlooked by regs or nsi or ssaib 

 

Or is it g2 that's why , and g3 G4 this would never occur meaning on older equipment , I suppose older equipment would have to be upgraded?

Sending an open aborts all intruder signals so long as its done within 90secs. So it doesnt matter what Grade if its sent an open emergency over someones on site in the eyes of the ARC. Its that filter line of wasting Police resources on false calls

 

4737 system, some panels failed open, there is nothing in 50131 or 8418 that says you should ensure that it fails closed either.