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Pyronix bell box going off by itself?


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Hi All,

 

I have a garage with a Cooper Scantronic 9651 unit and two Pyronix  Deltabell box's mounted on each end of the garage along with two control panels. It is all hardwired and was installed 10-12 years ago and has worked perfectly until recently.

 

One Tuesday afternoon one of the Deltabells went off i.e. Strobe and Bell, I tried to reset it via the control panel but the panel was showing no alarm of any sort and would not stop the bell sounding. Finally after 15mins the bell stopped but the strobe continued. The strobe continued until the following Saturday when it reverted back to alternating LED's. The next day Sunday the bell box went off again for another 15min spell and again no alarms or logs in the control unit. 

 

Both bell box's are wired in parallel so I am certain it is not being triggered by the control unit?

 

Any ideas on the cause or other actions please? I have both a user code and engineers code for the system.

 

At the moment I have disconnected the bell within the box but whilst in the box I could see nothing obviously wrong i.e. it was reasonably clean, dry and still firmly attached to the wall. The fault has not re-occurred as yet.

 

I am planning to replace the bell box as a precaution unless anyone else has any other suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance,

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How often do you have it serviced? 

 

Sounds like a tamper issue so either contact the installer, a reputable company or get the ladder out but beware there's high voltage around the pcb. 

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.


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Sounds like typical Pyronix tampers, plastic flexing. Is this a DIY system? When was it last serviced?

I can only suggest make sure the tamper switch is adjusted and closing firmly on both boxes.

It's also possible the tamper loop hasn't been wired correctly between the bells so the panel isn't triggering on tamper correctly.

Different manufacturers have there own way to wire multiple bell tampers so you may likely need to swap both and read the instructions on multiple tampers carefully.

You can't just parallel all the connections if you want it to work correctly.

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28 minutes ago, Moiser said:

Hi All,

 

I have a garage with a Cooper Scantronic 9651 unit and two Pyronix  Deltabell box's mounted on each end of the garage along with two control panels. It is all hardwired and was installed 10-12 years ago and has worked perfectly until recently.

 

One Tuesday afternoon one of the Deltabells went off i.e. Strobe and Bell, I tried to reset it via the control panel but the panel was showing no alarm of any sort and would not stop the bell sounding. Finally after 15mins the bell stopped but the strobe continued. The strobe continued until the following Saturday when it reverted back to alternating LED's. The next day Sunday the bell box went off again for another 15min spell and again no alarms or logs in the control unit. 

 

Both bell box's are wired in parallel so I am certain it is not being triggered by the control unit?

 

Any ideas on the cause or other actions please? I have both a user code and engineers code for the system.

 

At the moment I have disconnected the bell within the box but whilst in the box I could see nothing obviously wrong i.e. it was reasonably clean, dry and still firmly attached to the wall. The fault has not re-occurred as yet.

 

I am planning to replace the bell box as a precaution unless anyone else has any other suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance

Can you post a full picture of the bell with cover off ?

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In response to the other questions, it was professionally installed and serviced for the first couple of years and then the company went bust. However when they did service it they only checked the log, dusted the PIR's did a walk and bell test and from memory whole thing took about 20mins!! They never went near the bell box's!!

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2 hours ago, Moiser said:

In response to the other questions, it was professionally installed and serviced for the first couple of years and then the company went bust. However when they did service it they only checked the log, dusted the PIR's did a walk and bell test and from memory whole thing took about 20mins!! They never went near the bell box's!!

They metered them from the panel, its not a good idea to keep undoing screws it only makes the tamper switches work loose. You can tell from the resistance on the tamper circuit if its on its way out.

 

Anyway the service contract is not just about coming and checking that everything works as it should be. The contract covers you 24/7 in case you have a fault, like say a bellbox going off that you cant stop for example.

 

Pyronix bellbox's are well know for plastic flexing causing tamper faults, the heat up in sunlight and expand. My advice would be find another co and get the box changed for anything other than a Pyronix box 

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4 hours ago, Moiser said:

Thanks for the response.

Attached is a picture I took just so I had a reference for the wiring does this help?  If not I can get a better picture tomorrow.

20201012_104034v2.jpg

External battery?

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4 hours ago, Moiser said:

Thanks for the response.

Attached is a picture I took just so I had a reference for the wiring does this help?  If not I can get a better picture tomorrow.

20201012_104034v2.jpg

This is the second bell? Or all wired up inside the control panel with both cables 

 

I never had an issue the plastics on the Delta bell , unless that backplate tamper screw has snapped the tab maybe possible 

 

Or as said Bel is faulty but then I would swap the modules round if easy for you , that way you will know it's not the bell module as fault should follow 

 

Leaves you with plastics and cabling issue

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If it's wired correctly then you can meter the tamper return. If they are in parallel in the panel this wouldn't help find the fault tho, would have to test up there which isn't ideal.

You would normally do all bell tests from the panel on a service, getting up and disturbing the bell every year is only asking for trouble.

20-30 minutes sounds average for a smallish domestic. Plenty other tests would be done at the control panel as well as the other things you mention.

To be fair while I'd suspect the tamper on the bell it could be anything, bell, cabling, or panel would need much further diagnosis with a meter.

 

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4 hours ago, Moiser said:

then the company went bust.

 

 

you know why ?

 

4 hours ago, Moiser said:

serviced for the first couple of years.....whole thing took about 20mins!!

 

 

they where taking too long on the jobs 😉

 

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Mr😀 Veritas God

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Thanks  for the responses,  I have resolved two issues....

 

1. Bell going off for no apparent reason. The bell box's are mounted on a garage wall made up of feather edge boarding and when I looked closely at the box that triggered the microswitch was quite loose so I suspect it was just a little movement in the boarding or warping over the years that triggered the alarm.  To resolve this I have mounted the box and a piece of 1/2" ply so its on a flat surface and have adjusted the microswitch using the adjusting screw to ensure a positive closure.  This will remove any possibility of the boarding disturbing the microswitch.

 

2. Tamper alarm not being seen by the control unit. This was a simple wiring error as both bell box's were wired in parallel so a tamper in one was not seen as the circuit was still intact via the other box. I have wired these in series  and now the control panel alarms if either box is tampered with and  the alarm can be reset via the control panel. I also did a visual inspection of all wiring for damage and did a meter check for continuity and voltage. Clearly the bell box tamper alarm was not checked at initial installation or subsequent services.

 

Full walk test and sounder/bell/panel test and tamper test carried out and all is good.

 

Many thanks for the clues  and help, only time will tell if my analysis for the first fault is correct but at least I can silence the alarm when it does occur now.

 

Will also look for a reliable alarm maintenance firm in the area, just in case!

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27 minutes ago, Moiser said:

Thanks  for the responses,  I have resolved two issues....

 

1. Bell going off for no apparent reason. The bell box's are mounted on a garage wall made up of feather edge boarding and when I looked closely at the box that triggered the microswitch was quite loose so I suspect it was just a little movement in the boarding or warping over the years that triggered the alarm.  To resolve this I have mounted the box and a piece of 1/2" ply so its on a flat surface and have adjusted the microswitch using the adjusting screw to ensure a positive closure.  This will remove any possibility of the boarding disturbing the microswitch.

 

2. Tamper alarm not being seen by the control unit. This was a simple wiring error as both bell box's were wired in parallel so a tamper in one was not seen as the circuit was still intact via the other box. I have wired these in series  and now the control panel alarms if either box is tampered with and  the alarm can be reset via the control panel. I also did a visual inspection of all wiring for damage and did a meter check for continuity and voltage. Clearly the bell box tamper alarm was not checked at initial installation or subsequent services.

 

Full walk test and sounder/bell/panel test and tamper test carried out and all is good.

 

Many thanks for the clues  and help, only time will tell if my analysis for the first fault is correct but at least I can silence the alarm when it does occur now.

 

Will also look for a reliable alarm maintenance firm in the area, just in case!

You know ply will rot 

But you get sometime out of it lol

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Ply backing would only resolve it temporarily won't take too long to warp and delaminate.

With whoever fitted it having the tampers parallel hopefully everything else is ok and at least one of the boxes is in a low power mode.

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