tinnitus 2 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Hi guys, Grade 3 question. I’ve only ever done 1 grade 3 system and I’m now questioning if we over done it. It was at least 7 years ago but I remember all cables were in tube and all JB’s were tampered. All DT’s had anti masking too. I was questioned on grade 3 today and was told I was wrong about the containment and JB’s, am I? I don’t see why we would have done this if it wasn’t required, it was a right pain. Anyone have a link to grade 3 requirements? Have they changed over the years? Other option is that I’m just plain wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sixwheeledbeast 485 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Mechanical protection doesn't relate to EN50131 that would be covered under BS7671 and all connection boxes must be tampered at any Grade above 1. Masking is obviously a Grade 3 requirement. All the standards are there but they are copyright protected you purchase them from the BSI website, your company should have a copy. The best you will get without reading the standards is the manufacturers quick guides that are about, I think the Castle one is in the Downloads section. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
al-yeti 532 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 minute ago, sixwheeledbeast said: Mechanical protection doesn't relate to EN50131 that would be covered under BS7671 and all connection boxes must be tampered at any Grade above 1. Masking is obviously a Grade 3 requirement. All the standards are there but they are copyright protected you purchase them from the BSI website, your company should have a copy. The best you will get without reading the standards is the manufacturers quick guides that are about, I think the Castle one is in the Downloads section. All grade 3 must be anti mask? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james.wilson 741 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 33 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said: Mechanical protection doesn't relate to EN50131 that would be covered under BS7671 and all connection boxes must be tampered at any Grade above 1. Masking is obviously a Grade 3 requirement. All the standards are there but they are copyright protected you purchase them from the BSI website, your company should have a copy. The best you will get without reading the standards is the manufacturers quick guides that are about, I think the Castle one is in the Downloads section. Top reply 6 says it Quote securitywarehouse https://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to post Share on other sites
james.wilson 741 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Op you seem to have an issue due to your last few posts, just assuming based on recent it could be an x y thing. why don't you just ask that question? Quote securitywarehouse https://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus 2 Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 40 minutes ago, james.wilson said: Op you seem to have an issue due to your last few posts, just assuming based on recent it could be an x y thing. why don't you just ask that question? Sorry James I’m missing the point. You don’t like how I’m asking my questions here? 1 hour ago, sixwheeledbeast said: Mechanical protection doesn't relate to EN50131 that would be covered under BS7671 and all connection boxes must be tampered at any Grade above 1. Masking is obviously a Grade 3 requirement. All the standards are there but they are copyright protected you purchase them from the BSI website, your company should have a copy. The best you will get without reading the standards is the manufacturers quick guides that are about, I think the Castle one is in the Downloads section. Thanks for that reply, great info, much appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james.wilson 741 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 No not at all. I'm sure you can appreciate I always want questions I was just assuming there was an overriding issue, sorry Quote securitywarehouse https://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus 2 Posted April 24 Author Share Posted April 24 19 minutes ago, james.wilson said: No not at all. I'm sure you can appreciate I always want questions I was just assuming there was an overriding issue, sorry Hey don’t apologise, I’m so grateful for the advice I just dont want to piss anyone off lol. maybe I can explain. I done intruder for years, first panel was a logic 4, then an Concept? I think. I stuck to intruder for a long time then moved to fire, CCTV etc. Eventually i landed a door access role. I moved away from intruder and have recently gone back. I’m in a more senior role now but I’m finding things have moved on. I’m trying to pass on knowledge but I’m finding it’s out of date, I need to get up to date and I sometimes come here for a quick reply that pushes me in the right direction. actualy, I met my wife because of this forum lol. Someone offered me a job in Cornwall and I moved, that’s where we met! Just remembered that. So, sorry if I’m coming across as anything other than inquisitive, I understand it’s frustrating when “engineers” ask silly questions, I completely get it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sixwheeledbeast 485 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I think JW thought all your latest posts where connected to the same question (XY problem). It's can lead you down the wrong path asking questions around the problem like this. No worries if that's not the case . I often find with a lot of these situations the lines between what the regulations say and what engineers have picked up gets blurred. Opinions on what is right, wrong and rough overshadow what the written text of the regulations you are fitting to say. Now don't get me wrong there are some things in the regs that you may interpret differently to someone else but they are the where it comes from so best from the horses mouth sometimes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
datadiffusion 618 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 It needs them disabled all the time except during a user or engineer instigated test function. Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to post Share on other sites
sixwheeledbeast 485 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 From what I remember the wording is along the lines of "non system operators should not be given any indication of coverage or status from the CIE or detection devices" There is a caveat that the user or engineer can activate these indications for testing but after 120s of leaving the test it returns back to off/banner message. This is mandatory at Grade 3 and recommended based on risk for Grade 2 IIRC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james.wilson 741 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 yeah cant show coverage to level 1 users. How you do this when doing a walk test without emptying the building is another issue Quote securitywarehouse https://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to post Share on other sites
Alarmbloke 0 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 On 23/04/2020 at 23:16, al-yeti said: All grade 3 must be anti mask? What if you are adding kit to the grade 3 system that isnt grade 3? Perimeter beams for instance? Told its ok we need to right a deviation, makes no sense to me where someone can open a grd3 door contact then break an ungraded beam, ? Is this still a confirmed alarm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PeterJames 689 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 hour ago, Alarmbloke said: What if you are adding kit to the grade 3 system that isnt grade 3? Perimeter beams for instance? Told its ok we need to right a deviation, makes no sense to me where someone can open a grd3 door contact then break an ungraded beam, ? Is this still a confirmed alarm The Grade of a system is defined by the lowest graded component so if you fit a grade 2 component the system will be G2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james.wilson 741 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 As above if you use a grade 1 component on a grade 3 system the whole system becomes grade 1 Quote securitywarehouse https://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to post Share on other sites
Alarmbloke 0 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 On 22/07/2020 at 20:33, PeterJames said: The Grade of a system is defined by the lowest graded component so if you fit a grade 2 component the system will be G2 Yes i understand that, im talking kit that cant be graded, We done a job and had to fit perimeter beams around perimeter, because the beams where not graded, we where told we could keep at as grd3 but need to do a deviation explaining no other devices at a graded level where available, Also finding some breakglass detectors are xlaiming ro be g3 by there model number but are infact grade 2 etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PeterJames 689 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 IIf iisnt used for monitoring then it could be listed as auxiliary items Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james.wilson 741 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 There is no method to do 'variations' for intruder, there should be though. There was a lot of devices that were grade 3 dropped to grade 2 when the rear tamper rules changed Quote securitywarehouse https://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to post Share on other sites
MrHappy 1,739 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 off topic- I fitted some grade 3 fmc's contacts today, ya90 I thought they would be a ball ache, but they appear to just "work" no idea what make them g3 ? Quote Mr Veritas God Link to post Share on other sites
sixwheeledbeast 485 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 There all potted and only can have the magnet in one place so I suppose easier to design? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
al-yeti 532 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, MrHappy said: off topic- I fitted some grade 3 fmc's contacts today, ya90 I thought they would be a ball ache, but they appear to just "work" no idea what make them g3 ? Hate those Honeywell g3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PeterJames 689 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 I hate G3 full stop, Insurance companies, architects, other related non technical mongs think that because its higher security, its whats needed for their old barn with doors hanging off and no windows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrHappy 1,739 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, al-yeti said: Hate those Honeywell g3 accentta ? Quote Mr Veritas God Link to post Share on other sites
Nova-Security 114 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 2 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: There all potted and only can have the magnet in one place so I suppose easier to design? Not all potted, but I would have thought they should be Quote www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name. Link to post Share on other sites
al-yeti 532 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, MrHappy said: accentta ? No man those oval things with cable premade Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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