Rulland Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 ok... that helps... I have 3 keypads. So I can connect anything to the keypad? Yep-basically you've got 14 zones now then-refer to the manual for 'mapping' the keypad zones onto the system, I would normally add them at the end of the zone list ie 48 downwards-it just means that if you ever have to add an expander it saves reprogging stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Before I start, I want to make sure that all wiring is in place correctly and I have the knowledge to install it properly. So far I am happy with the keypads and the PIR installation. Next on the list are the smoke detectors. 2 quick questions: - Do I need to connect the smoke detectors as EOL as well? - I have a total of 8 zones and have 6 PIRs, 1 door contact and 2 smoke detectors making a total of 9. That means that possibly I can solve the problem if I put the smoke detectors in series and attach to 1 zone only. Is this doable and does it make sense? I will start thinking about the wiring depending on your answers. Thanks a million 1) No, you don't have to, but will be better. EOL will keep the system wiring the same. (and use less cores, see below) 2) Yes, it is doable but just because it's doable doesn't mean it's good practice/correct to. In your installation I wouldn't put multiple sensor's on one zone at all. If you have an activation upon entering the code, the zone will appear, you can then locate the fault/intruder/fire and take correct action. If you still can I would install some extra cables to make life easier. Because the Premier can have two zones (detectors) off the keypad some of the detector wires could go straight to the keypads, freeing up space on the panel. Failing that an alternative is to use spare cores in the keypad cables to send the zones from the panel (which is full) to a keypad. Join in the panel using terminal (choc) block or solder. Dependant on your smoke sensors they probably will not have resistors built in, this is where the resistors with the panel come in. I recommend taking one of each device and wiring them up as described before fitting. Maybe this way you can see what happening. Also you can part program the panel ready for installation. Yep-basically you've got 14 zones now then-refer to the manual for 'mapping' the keypad zones onto the system, I would normally add them at the end of the zone list ie 48 downwards-it just means that if you ever have to add an expander it saves reprogging stuff. I agree. I map keypad zones on a P48 to Zones 41-48 as these zones can only be mapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurrieq Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Absolutely... I will stick to EOL. I will soon send the wiring for your approval. I am already thinking of how to rewire the whole system as I have a number of PIRs which can go directly to a keypad. That will free up space in the control panel. I am starting to like my Premier panel I like your idea of connecting 1 item of each before final fitting. ooohh.... I got so many things to do 1) No, you don't have to, but will be better. EOL will keep the system wiring the same. (and use less cores, see below) 2) Yes, it is doable but just because it's doable doesn't mean it's good practice/correct to. In your installation I wouldn't put multiple sensor's on one zone at all. If you have an activation upon entering the code, the zone will appear, you can then locate the fault/intruder/fire and take correct action. If you still can I would install some extra cables to make life easier. Because the Premier can have two zones (detectors) off the keypad some of the detector wires could go straight to the keypads, freeing up space on the panel. Failing that an alternative is to use spare cores in the keypad cables to send the zones from the panel (which is full) to a keypad. Join in the panel using terminal (choc) block or solder. Dependant on your smoke sensors they probably will not have resistors built in, this is where the resistors with the panel come in. I recommend taking one of each device and wiring them up as described before fitting. Maybe this way you can see what happening. Also you can part program the panel ready for installation. I agree. I map keypad zones on a P48 to Zones 41-48 as these zones can only be mapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurrieq Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 I had to go back and replan the whole wiring of the system due to added capacity of the zones on the keypads. Some more questions for the gurus: 1) The keypad does not have Aux 12V (+ & -) so I need to find another way to power the detectors for the keypad zoning. Can I use the same supply coming from the panel to the keypad? If yes, I imagine it needs to be in parallel so I can connect to the + - of the keypad directly. 2) The keypad allows for 1 fully programmable output (100mA -ve applied). Does this mean I can attach a sound bomb (Kinetic SB2 KSB2A Quadruple Piezo Sound Bomb Internal Sounder) to it? Or that needs to be connected directly to panel? These only have 2 wires so I assume they are either on or off. 3) There are Aux 12V 4 terminals in the panel. 2 for + and 2 for -. Can I use any of them for wiring? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rulland Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I had to go back and replan the whole wiring of the system due to added capacity of the zones on the keypads. Some more questions for the gurus: 1) The keypad does not have Aux 12V (+ & -) so I need to find another way to power the detectors for the keypad zoning. Can I use the same supply coming from the panel to the keypad? If yes, I imagine it needs to be in parallel so I can connect to the + - of the keypad directly. Yes connect pos and neg to the rkp power terms. 2) The keypad allows for 1 fully programmable output (100mA -ve applied). Does this mean I can attach a sound bomb (Kinetic SB2 KSB2A Quadruple Piezo Sound Bomb Internal Sounder) to it? Or that needs to be connected directly to panel? These only have 2 wires so I assume they are either on or off. Yes-if the soundbomb (don't know it off hand)draws less than than the output can deliver,and yes just on/off. 3) There are Aux 12V 4 terminals in the panel. 2 for + and 2 for -. Can I use any of them for wiring? Those terms are specifically designed for aux 12v-ie detectors etc, so again yes. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 1) The keypad does not have Aux 12V (+ & -) so I need to find another way to power the detectors for the keypad zoning. Can I use the same supply coming from the panel to the keypad? If yes, I imagine it needs to be in parallel so I can connect to the + - of the keypad directly. 2) The keypad allows for 1 fully programmable output (100mA -ve applied). Does this mean I can attach a sound bomb (Kinetic SB2 KSB2A Quadruple Piezo Sound Bomb Internal Sounder) to it? Or that needs to be connected directly to panel? These only have 2 wires so I assume they are either on or off. 3) There are Aux 12V 4 terminals in the panel. 2 for + and 2 for -. Can I use any of them for wiring? Thanks As above really. Yes use the + and - on the Keypad, if you want it is good to double up the power wires going to keypad. E.g Red and White +, Black and Blue -, Yellow T, Green R. This will reduce voltage dropped at a the keypads and sensors. Not keen on sound bomb's, beware of current, probably best sited adj panel. The 4 terminal next to Zone 1 can be used to power devices, excluding bell box, expanders, keypad as they have there own terminals. Do not use the DC+ DC- next to the battery leads, this is unfused and for communicators fitted inside the panel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 just to be clear, i'd advise strongly against feeding anything but keypads from the keypad supply it won't affect operations or your security, but if you ever get a short circuit say during redecoration or mice chewing on a detector cable, your keypad will go dead, and you won't be able to stop internal sirens very quickly, and your partner/kids not at all. Arfur If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rulland Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 just to be clear, i'd advise strongly against feeding anything but keypads from the keypad supply it won't affect operations or your security, but if you ever get a short circuit say during redecoration or mice chewing on a detector cable, your keypad will go dead, and you won't be able to stop internal sirens very quickly, and your partner/kids not at all. Arfur And if you don't install an alarm at all there will be no chance off cables being damaged!, where does one draw the line?, the manufacturers design the rkp's with zones on it, you're saying do not utilise it then!. Any cable at any time could get damaged realistically surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 the manufacturers design the rkp's with zones on it, you're saying do not utilise it then!. I read it as Arf saying no to pir's of the rkp ? Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Yeah but he is incorrect. Many manufacturers make an allowance for this method of fittment. And most of useing that type of panel for years also utilising this method have had no problems. As above good advice is to double up the 0V rail and if possible the +ve too, if only able to do one double the 0V rail up. To add every NODE/RIO/LIM/EXPANDER runs off the data rail and then runs the components. Generally without another PSU. Whats the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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