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Eurosec CP8L "KP Tamper" Error


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HI Guys, 

 

I have a Eurosec CP8L alarm, installed by the builder. About 2 years I had to replace the main battery, but other that it was functioning fine. Recently I started getting tamper alarms at random times through the day, not too often yet, but few late at night - so this is annoying. It is very similar to False Tampers Eurosec Cp8l Lcd topic from years ago, but I do get a definite code for "KP Tamper" when it happens. I unscrewed keypad panel and the button on the back of the board seems to be functioning as intended with spring looking ok (and triggering legitimate KP Tamper when I take the panel off). Other than that the KP board looks fine (pics attached).

I also looked at control panel board, but also didn't see anything obvious. I connected/disconnected KP tamper wires (left hand side - highlighted in red in pics - they seem to be doing their job triggering KP Tamper as expected). 

Anything else for me to check?

Can I somehow isolate (bridge??) KP Tamper  on the main board to see if this points to KP/wiring or something else (maybe on the main board??)

Thanks a lot. 

 

p.s. I am not a professional security systems installer, but know my way around electrics, so can do basic testing if needed.  

 

kp.jpg

kp_board.jpg

control_panel_board_1.jpg

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8 hours ago, AlexL said:

HI Guys, 

 

I have a Eurosec CP8L alarm, installed by the builder. About 2 years I had to replace the main battery, but other that it was functioning fine. Recently I started getting tamper alarms at random times through the day, not too often yet, but few late at night - so this is annoying. It is very similar to False Tampers Eurosec Cp8l Lcd topic from years ago, but I do get a definite code for "KP Tamper" when it happens. I unscrewed keypad panel and the button on the back of the board seems to be functioning as intended with spring looking ok (and triggering legitimate KP Tamper when I take the panel off). Other than that the KP board looks fine (pics attached).

I also looked at control panel board, but also didn't see anything obvious. I connected/disconnected KP tamper wires (left hand side - highlighted in red in pics - they seem to be doing their job triggering KP Tamper as expected). 

Anything else for me to check?

Can I somehow isolate (bridge??) KP Tamper  on the main board to see if this points to KP/wiring or something else (maybe on the main board??)

Thanks a lot. 

 

p.s. I am not a professional security systems installer, but know my way around electrics, so can do basic testing if needed.  

 

kp.jpg

kp_board.jpg

control_panel_board_1.jpg

You tried stretching the spring a little then close it 

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gently twat the keypad with the handle of screwdriver... this will simulate the day 2 day movement of the house, 

 

eg - kids slamming doors, a fat wife waddling up the hallway, a dpd van bouncing over the kerb outside delving ebay tat...

 

if it doesn't go into tamper the spring doesn't need touching

 

I'd bin the controls & put something better in

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Mr😀 Veritas God

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if all the terminals are tight and the spring is good then I would say dry joint somewhere on the rkp. Though the top of the rkp PCB looks like its had some water damage thats spilled out onto the label in the lid

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Just to point out yanking on tamper springs isn't most sensible idea unless you know what your doing.

They can be over stretched and misalign with the casing or worst case you can pull the microswitch lever/button off if your not careful.

As Mr.H knock it about see if you can reproduce the tamper is the best thing.

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Right, thanks gents for all the advice. 

 

Here is what I've done - I did gentle knock about to the assembled KP and didn't manage to trigger kp tamper. BUT this is where it gets bizarre...

I noticed that occasionally (random times) on CP there are beeps as if I am pressing buttons on KP (obv. without  anyone pressing anything). After tamper alarm, if I only enter my code in, it still keeps the message "!!CHECK!! KP Tamper"  - if I don't do anything else, it keeps it and keeps other KP false alarms at bay . Which fine as I work from home, but obv renders the system useless. If I preset Reset - it goes back to "unset" state (as my first pic) and then after some random time "KP Tamper" can happen. So very recently - it took me quite awhile to make it shut up. I noticed that when I press keys on KP and the beeps are duplicated on CP the code works fine. But recently when I pressed it was only beeping on KP and wasn't making any effect ... after some time (~1-2-3 min) it started working again (with duplicating beeps on CP) so I turned it off.  So looks like the culprit is either on KP pcb, KP -> CP wiring or maybe there is some circuitry on CP? 😞 

Anything worth for me to try doing before calling in the specialists? Perhaps buy and replace KP PCB (not sure if this is just a trivial swap or not - are the codes stored on KP or on CP)?

Cheers.

20220107_123340.jpg

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57 minutes ago, AlexL said:

Right, thanks gents for all the advice. 

 

Here is what I've done - I did gentle knock about to the assembled KP and didn't manage to trigger kp tamper. BUT this is where it gets bizarre...

I noticed that occasionally (random times) on CP there are beeps as if I am pressing buttons on KP (obv. without  anyone pressing anything). After tamper alarm, if I only enter my code in, it still keeps the message "!!CHECK!! KP Tamper"  - if I don't do anything else, it keeps it and keeps other KP false alarms at bay . Which fine as I work from home, but obv renders the system useless. If I preset Reset - it goes back to "unset" state (as my first pic) and then after some random time "KP Tamper" can happen. So very recently - it took me quite awhile to make it shut up. I noticed that when I press keys on KP and the beeps are duplicated on CP the code works fine. But recently when I pressed it was only beeping on KP and wasn't making any effect ... after some time (~1-2-3 min) it started working again (with duplicating beeps on CP) so I turned it off.  So looks like the culprit is either on KP pcb, KP -> CP wiring or maybe there is some circuitry on CP? 😞 

Anything worth for me to try doing before calling in the specialists? Perhaps buy and replace KP PCB (not sure if this is just a trivial swap or not - are the codes stored on KP or on CP)?

Cheers.

20220107_123340.jpg

Just swap the kp 

 

Ideally scrap it

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al, I presume by scraping = replacing the system completely? 😞 Will be my last resort as costly. 

Swapping - is it just a simple 4 wires out 4 wires in direct hot swap with the new KP - or there is more to it (registering with CP, powering down etc?)

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1 hour ago, AlexL said:

al, I presume by scraping = replacing the system completely? 😞 Will be my last resort as costly. 

Swapping - is it just a simple 4 wires out 4 wires in direct hot swap with the new KP - or there is more to it (registering with CP, powering down etc?)

The panel is obsolete but you may find one on ebay or somewhere, its a straight swap if you have the same keypad

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7 hours ago, AlexL said:

but endstation installation is probably not a simple swap,

 

for a super-duper alarm man like me 2hrs

 

1/2 hr to replace the rkp

1 hr to swap the controls

1/2 to fake some paper work & demo to the end user 😉

  • Upvote 1

Mr😀 Veritas God

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Guys, thought I'd update on the status. 

Ordered KP, while waiting for it to arrive the screen (power) on KP gone completely so it wasn't responsive, basically dead. When new arrived, upon swapping - nothing changed on the new one, i.e. as if there wasn't power going into it (so I think it might be something on control panel all along). I did however managed to trigger the control panel and alarm. With effectively no KP to turn it off, had to pull the battery and fuse out and few wires in the bell to shut it down :(. So, regrettably, will have to go with full replacement as was suggested before :). 

I am sure this has been asked many times (so don't shoot), but any advise on general approach:

1. Buy something (wired) on my own and ask installer to install it.

2. Go with what installer recommend (I think they use Pyronix) 

3. Just go with wireless DIY, e.g. ring etc ? 😕

 

Thanks for advice.

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Option 3 is junk and not an "alarm system".

You need to decide if your doing it yourself or just getting a man that know what they are doing to just do it in half a day.

We can't make that decision but you seem to want the system working and you have already worked out the hard way spending money to fix nothing, installer seems sensible?

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1 hour ago, AlexL said:

Hi Guys, thought I'd update on the status. 

Ordered KP, while waiting for it to arrive the screen (power) on KP gone completely so it wasn't responsive, basically dead. When new arrived, upon swapping - nothing changed on the new one, i.e. as if there wasn't power going into it (so I think it might be something on control panel all along). I did however managed to trigger the control panel and alarm. With effectively no KP to turn it off, had to pull the battery and fuse out and few wires in the bell to shut it down

 

Thanks for advice.

Have you tried wiring it directly into the panel on a short bit of wire? Also check the fuses,fuses are there to save the panel when amatures decide to play around.

1. I wouldn't install something purchased by a customer, it opens up all sorts of warranty issues.

2.This would be my recommendation

3. All of this stuff is one way wireless, as swb says not an alarm system. The Ring alarm will need to be more reliable than the doorbell to be any good.  It really comes down to what type of burglar you are likely to attract.

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20 hours ago, james.wilson said:

ring and simplisafe etc have burglar guides on youtube, look yourself for howto guides on defeating 

 

cool, what do they have in the way of disabling a tracker on 2022 Cayman ?

Mr😀 Veritas God

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Guys, thought I'd update. I have decided to replace both KP and CP. I think the ultimate culprit was the wiring between CP and KP, but still decided to go through with replacement. So now have an upgrade (pyronix + web access) even though at a cost :). 

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