Jump to content
GalaxyQuest

Monitoring Regulations Query

Recommended Posts

Hi - this is my first post and I’m hoping you guys can help shed some light on an ongoing query I have.

 

I have a Grade 2 Monitored system with a URN that was setup to send a daily test call to the ARC via a digital communicator over my telephone line, the system has been installed and maintained for over 10yrs.

 

It recently came to light that the digi was failing to communicate to the ARC each day (the ARC received the call, however no data transmitted) and therefore the panel was attempting to redial a number of times each day before giving up. 

 

This has resulted in me incurring a very hefty phone bill and baffled the alarm engineers as to what happened, so I have had the digi replaced with a new CSL digi air, to move away from the phone line.

 

The question I have is surely I should have been made aware that my system was failing to make the daily test call?

 

On discussing this with the ARC they have told me that it would be standard practice for the profile at their end to be setup with a schedule so that if the test call was not received by them within the rolling 24hr period then a fault would be raised and flagged back accordingly to me or my alarm company, however my profile was never setup in this way (either not setup properly or never asked to be setup in this way).

 

Before I follow this up further with the ARC and my security company, I just wondered if anybody could offer any guidance on what would be the ordinary protocol for such a system and how it should have been setup. I am thinking that by not setting up the system to ensure the test call was received then technically it hasn’t been compliant with the regs and therefore a fault lies with someone?

 

Any insight would be appreciated so that I can amicably resolve this with the two companies. The main thing is my system is working perfectly with the new digi and I can sleep easy!

 

Thanks in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be speaking to the company you have the contract with (you say 2 companies, I guess alarm Co and arc) for a gesture of goodwill towards your phone bill. If your contract is with the alarm company (as usual) then imo they should reimburse you and persue the arc for recompense. 

Edited by norman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Norman, the companies are the alarm and then monitoring firm, you are correct.

 

Interestingly the ARC says the alarm company would have needed to ask for it to be setup, where as to me the regulations state that this would be a standard requirement so am not sure who is technically at fault here, if it is indeed the regulation?

 

I have a very good relationship with the alarm company and have no qualms with their service (hence why I’m not using any names), however I want to understand the regs and who technically might be accountable here as I am not interested in mud slinging, but an amicable solution.

 

The phone bill cost me c£600 so it’s not a small amount of money either and will teach me not to look at my direct debits so regularly as I might have spotted the issue myself!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

assuming its a 50131 system and certificated to g2 then it should of been setup for daily test calls. I'm also assuming you pay your monitoring and maintenance to your installer not the arc?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Normaly your contract would state the call charges are your responsibility.

 

There is probably a ground fault, star services or adsl on the line which interferes with the digi hearing the acknowledgment of the signal & to stop trying.

 

I'd assume the installer gets a report of sites which have't done a signal in 24hrs or report of sites with excessive signals.

 

You may ask them why they didn't act on the information... In turn they might ask why you run it up to £600.

 

I'd assume the goodwill of you telecoms provider & alarm co. would cover most of your costs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GalaxyQuest said:

 

 

Interestingly the ARC says the alarm company would have needed to ask for it to be setup, where as to me the regulations state that this would be a standard requirement so am not sure who is technically at fault here, if it is indeed the regulation?

 

 

 

I would agree with you on this, I have never had to tell my ARC what to do if they do not receive a daily test signal. The whole point of sending a daily test signal is to ensure that the signalling is working properly. What other possible purpose would it be for, I cannot think of any other "set up" your alarm company could possibly request.

If I were your alarm company I would be very concerned that something that is designed to inform them that something doesnt work, failed to inform anyone. IMO from what you have said, it clearly looks like the ARC is at fault here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

Normaly your contract would state the call charges are your responsibility.

 

There is probably a ground fault, star services or adsl on the line which interferes with the digi hearing the acknowledgment of the signal & to stop trying.

 

I'd assume the installer gets a report of sites which have't done a signal in 24hrs or report of sites with excessive signals.

 

You may ask them why they didn't act on the information... In turn they might ask why you run it up to £600.

 

I'd assume the goodwill of you telecoms provider & alarm co. would cover most of your costs

Bit silly if they asked y he run bill up, he wouldn't know 

 

Most people don't know about phone charges from what I have seen let alone daily test calls , never explained and in clear big font this is what you will pay on top of your contract 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just one other thing is the ARC using a premium number? £600 seems a very high amount, around 3 calls every 24 hrs, to a national number, even on a quarterly bill as a conservative calculation I come out under £300.00

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, PeterJames said:

Just one other thing is the ARC using a premium number? £600 seems a very high amount, around 3 calls every 24 hrs, to a national number, even on a quarterly bill as a conservative calculation I come out under £300.00

runaway cos of changed provider?

this will happen a lot with bt shutting down pstn imo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, james.wilson said:

 

this will happen a lot with bt shutting down pstn imo

But surely when the PSTN is shut down the digi cant make a chargeable call.

 

In the op's instance my money would be on a problem with the receiver and not the phone line, although I admit without the full facts it is difficult to surmise for sure, it could be a dodgy phoneline or a problem with the digi. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, PeterJames said:

But surely when the PSTN is shut down the digi cant make a chargeable call.

a failed/unsuccessful call is still a call

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

digis make iirc 8 calls before a ftc. It was seen on the old 21cn. pstn is dying anyone using it for primary comms has concerns imo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My understanding of the PSTN shutdown will mean that Digis will not be able to dial a call it has the wrong technology of DTMF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, PeterJames said:

My understanding of the PSTN shutdown will mean that Digis will not be able to dial a call it has the wrong technology of DTMF

Bt Fibre to home , line voltage is local , seech diallers have no problem dialling....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, james.wilson said:

digis make iirc 8 calls before a ftc. It was seen on the old 21cn. pstn is dying anyone using it for primary comms has concerns imo

8 calls seems excessive Ive only ever known them to make 3 attempts, when it first came out we had loads of fails due to the fact that they were all factory set to call at the same time so they arc was engaged at 12.01 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, al-yeti said:

Bt Fibre to home , line voltage is local , seech diallers have no problem dialling....

Is this using the BT hub special services input? BT are switching off PSTN ETA  all PSTN to be gone by 2025. They said that speech diallers and digis will have to be plugged in to the special services socket on their hub. I think they even said that special services has to be switched on and the customer pays extra for it 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all of the responses. I will be discussing with the alarm co tomorrow.

 

Its my second home so im not there all the time and each call costs 20p, some

days the system tried 30/40 times, hence one month phone bill cost me £250, I should pay closer attention to my bills, I know.

 

The phone line has no issues, ADSL and phone line are running perfectly fine and all filters are working normally so everyone is none the wiser why the digi (on a galaxy) stopped working.

 

Not an issue with the panel as the digi air is now working fine.

 

My concern was more who is truly at fault here so that I can have a sensible conversation as it felt like something hasn’t been setup appropriately with monitoring If the daily test call had happened or not.

 

Appreciate all the insight!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PeterJames said:

I would agree with you on this, I have never had to tell my ARC what to do if they do not receive a daily test signal. The whole point of sending a daily test signal is to ensure that the signalling is working properly. What other possible purpose would it be for, I cannot think of any other "set up" your alarm company could possibly request.

If I were your alarm company I would be very concerned that something that is designed to inform them that something doesnt work, failed to inform anyone. IMO from what you have said, it clearly looks like the ARC is at fault here. 

 

I don’t disagree with this, although a member of the ARC’s management team positioned that they would need to be asked to setup to do this, it’s not standard practice for a Grade 2 system with a URN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, PeterJames said:

Is this using the BT hub special services input? BT are switching off PSTN ETA  all PSTN to be gone by 2025. They said that speech diallers and digis will have to be plugged in to the special services socket on their hub. I think they even said that special services has to be switched on and the customer pays extra for it 

I don't know what it's called but I fixed a dialler issue this way as they wondered why it wasn't dialling out since fibre went in , the phone socket was the white fibre box and was already active 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GalaxyQuest said:

Thanks for all of the responses. I will be discussing with the alarm co tomorrow.

 

Its my second home so im not there all the time and each call costs 20p, some

days the system tried 30/40 times, hence one month phone bill cost me £250, I should pay closer attention to my bills, I know.

 

The phone line has no issues, ADSL and phone line are running perfectly fine and all filters are working normally so everyone is none the wiser why the digi (on a galaxy) stopped working.

 

Not an issue with the panel as the digi air is now working fine.

 

My concern was more who is truly at fault here so that I can have a sensible conversation as it felt like something hasn’t been setup appropriately with monitoring If the daily test call had happened or not.

 

Appreciate all the insight!

I don't get it , as others have kind of mentioned , why did it get to a heavy hefty bill rather than the alarm company or arc not notifying of the failures and that something is wrong

 

Or is this how it is , asking monthly parent is made coms failure is a side issue lol

2 hours ago, GalaxyQuest said:

 

I don’t disagree with this, although a member of the ARC’s management team positioned that they would need to be asked to setup to do this, it’s not standard practice for a Grade 2 system with a URN.

You means coms between arc and alarm company? As arc needs to inform alarm company , alarm company speaks to customer 

1 hour ago, norman said:

Your recourse is with your security company. 

Sums it up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, GalaxyQuest said:

The phone line has no issues, ADSL and phone line are running perfectly fine and all filters are working normally so everyone is none the wiser why the digi (on a galaxy) stopped working.

 

ADSL on the alarm telephone line will interfere with the Alarms ability to here the tones which make it stop dialing.

 

A "working telephone line" can have a ground fault can interfere with the Alarms ability to here the tones which make it stop dialing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, norman said:

Your recourse is with your security company. 

qfa

You are contracted with your security co, they should be taking it up with the ARC. I think your security company were lucky, if your house had burned down and no-one was called, it would be your insurance company that would have taken it up them, and that would not of ended well. They have had a lucky escape. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.