breff Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I'm fed up of the kids leaving the bathroom and kitchen downlighters on all night wasting electric and costing me money, so I saw some 12v Led MR11 bulbs in the CPC catalog and thought I'd give them a try. The existing downlighters in each room are 4x20w halogens already 12v. I started replacxing the bulbs 1 at a time and all seemed good until I removed the last halogen when all the LEDs went dim. I have seen that there are LED Driver Transformers but what is the difference to a normal transformer and why did the LED bulbs work while there was 1 Halogen connected?? The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Suspect you have an electronic transformer and it sees the new LED bulbs as 'no load' and is throttling its output. Also I'm assuming the lamps do have built in regulators (most, but not all 'replacement' types do). With one incandescent lamp left it was still providing the output. Most (but not all) other 'pure' LED lamps require a constant current or constant voltage source, like the 1W readings ones we've got on our bed. Replacement styles don't usually. However most existing 'low voltage' lamps are simpy 12VAC as I'm sure you know. This might solve your problem; http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLT50slash1.html Or whatever driver they recommend for the lamp. Whats the P/N for your lamps? p.s its the way to go, we used to have 6 x 50W in our kitchen, now 6 x 5W LED supplemented with some LED strips under the cabinets = its da bomb! So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goncall Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Suspect you have an electronic transformer and it sees the new LED bulbs as 'no load' and is throttling its output. Also I'm assuming the lamps do have built in regulators (most, but not all 'replacement' types do). With one incandescent lamp left it was still providing the output. Most (but not all) other 'pure' LED lamps require a constant current or constant voltage source, like the 1W readings ones we've got on our bed. Replacement styles don't usually. However most existing 'low voltage' lamps are simpy 12VAC as I'm sure you know. This might solve your problem; http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLT50slash1.html Or whatever driver they recommend for the lamp. Whats the P/N for your lamps? p.s its the way to go, we used to have 6 x 50W in our kitchen, now 6 x 5W LED supplemented with some LED strips under the cabinets = its da bomb! as data says,some t/f need a minimum load hence the last halo you took out,agree on the led strips,kids have them on day and all night for background lighting cost nowt to run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Are the lamps series or parallel? It's to do with the load as above. The resistive load of the one bulb is keeping the voltage/current at the correct value for the LED lamps. If you don't have the correct transformer constant current or constant voltage, it will only damage the LED's quicker; due to the higher forward voltage on the diode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breff Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 They are all in parallel, anyway of lashing something like adding a resistor in parallel or will it have to be such a high wattage resistor that I wont be saving any energy The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Are the lamps series or parallel? It's to do with the load as above. The resistive load of the one bulb is keeping the voltage/current at the correct value for the LED lamps. If you don't have the correct transformer constant current or constant voltage, it will only damage the LED's quicker; due to the higher forward voltage on the diode. Not if they are replacement types - they have built in ballast. But still not enough load for the transformer... They are all in parallel, anyway of lashing something like adding a resistor in parallel or will it have to be such a high wattage resistor that I wont be saving any energy Don't do that, if they are replacement types they have built in ballast/rectifier. You only need to change the trafo for a normal non electronic type, but if you let me know the CPC part number I can have a look? So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breff Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 LP0463805 The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 not fancy an occupancy switch ? Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Ah, I take it all back. A LOT of these repalcement types have built in rectifier to work off AC/DC. All the ones on my narrowboat do cos of spackers hiring it that put them into DC sockets the wrong way for a start... But this one is def DC... Voltage: 12V DC 40 Lumens Average life time: 30,000 - 50,000 hours Available in daylight white or warm white Please note: Must be used with a led driver transformer e.g. LP02591 So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 All the ones on my narrowboat BTW I'm thinking snorkel & a cordless drill... Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 not fancy an occupancy switch ? I have a couple in the ceilings for this very reason, simple, unobtrusive and work well, I just have to wave the newspaper every 5 mins when I'm having a **** downstairs. (in the toilet of course) Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 not fancy an occupancy switch ? Or separate lecy meters. Low occupancy rooms and hallways I'd have PIR lighting if I was rewiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 No need to re-wire, the rooms I have them in are small but easy to follow the run of the joist so no mess. Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 i use motion sensor replacement light switches, sensor for dark enough to come on (adjustable), also mic which means in a Tv room as long as the telly or radio is on the lights won't go out. @Norman - you could sing, cough or should have enough gas for your reading needs . If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 i use motion sensor replacement light switches, sensor for dark enough to come on (adjustable), also mic which means in a Tv room as long as the telly or radio is on the lights won't go out. I know the ones you mean with a mic, they are ace! http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BE180R2W.html They also come with a free cap to wire in to bypass low loads or ballasts on the 2 wire version... Our kitchen would have been ideal for a ceiling PIR were it not for the whippets tripping it every 5 minutes overnight! So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adi Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 I have a couple in the ceilings for this very reason, simple, unobtrusive and work well, I just have to wave the newspaper every 5 mins when I'm having a **** downstairs. (in the toilet of course) lol I really can't be ar**** with it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul P Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Our kitchen would have been ideal for a ceiling PIR were it not for the whippets tripping it every 5 minutes overnight! You will like this..... years ago we put a fan in a blind disabled persons toilet. We thought it was a good idea to conect it to a PIR. What then happened was the customer used the room, the fan switched on and the shutter went click. After a preset time the fan turned off and the shutter closed with a click, there dog then went to investigate the noise and it stared over again. The good idea did not last long... Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Yeah, all those good ideas, I know.... Like the job where we fitted the automatic garage door to the garage with no ped door, and forgot to put any kind of override button OUTSIDE the garage itself.... One nearby lightening strike and one cleared/rebooted RF module later... In the end the owners son had the bright idea of removing one tile and tapping the button inside with a broom! Customer actually thought it was quite funny, thank fook. They now have a keyswitch hidden round the side! So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I know the ones you mean with a mic, they are ace! http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BE180R2W.html They also come with a free cap to wire in to bypass low loads or ballasts on the 2 wire version... Our kitchen would have been ideal for a ceiling PIR were it not for the whippets tripping it every 5 minutes overnight! thats the one, near 180 degree detection. ideal for passageways but do have a loud click from the relay.. since fitted i've not had to get up to turn off the passage or util room lights left on when the grandkids are over . not to sure how they would perform with LED as we have Low wattage energy bulbs. client of mine when expanding his house, put two banks of small LED spotlights in as well as the normal ones with bulbs, i swear when he turned the LED ones on - it got darker lol! If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Yep our Kitchen was a bit 'gloomy' even with 5W x 6 but a few LED strips under the cabs sorted that out. So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 has to be said the later LED replacements are far brighter. in our lounge we have a 5 arm ceiling light, very ornate. we had 5 x 60 watt bulbs originally, then swapped out to halogen low energy candles which stopped banging the fuse every time a bulb went. last year one exploded as wife switched on, throwing glass shards everywhere. These were bought from TLC. I just can't have that, so have now been replaced with 5 x 5 watt LED candle bulbs @ £18 each, bit expensive but should last 25 years or more, at least won't bang fusses or explode. would not claim they as bright as the halogens, but i also noticed due to less heat you don't get those dark marks on the ceiling above either, so another small bonus . If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 We paid £4 at IKEA, interestingly they seem to have quietly stopped selling those 5W ones now just 3W... That's progress for you! I like TLC, not always the absolute cheapest but a non-nonsense website, 'free' delivery and friendly staff in Bristol at least! So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.