Guest Oxo Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Spot on, plus if additional split up fuses are fitted the first bigger fuse still must have the same current running through. A control panels current should never get near it's fuse rating; if running a 7Ah battery then each PSU in the system should draw no more than 560mA standby, to get the 12 Hours + Activition required. You obviously haven't fitted many 100+ zone systems in your 43 years, otherwise you would see the method of running more cable and having power supplies all back at the panel is not practical. Equipment has changed and is designed to feed power in this way. Time and experience, does not grow linearly. They are not the same thing and should never be assumed they go hand in hand. I don't think this helps the thread dragging random anecdotes about JB's in lofts and fitting nails in fuse holders. Either way is acceptable, your method is in the minority. QFA To add to the other "Class" WTF is that all about. From someone in Essex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 You obviously haven't fitted many 100+ zone systems in your 43 years, otherwise you would see the method of running more cable and having power supplies all back at the panel is not practical. Equipment has changed and is designed to feed power in this way. Time and experience, does not grow linearly. They are not the same thing and should never be assumed they go hand in hand. I don't think this helps the thread dragging random anecdotes about JB's in lofts and fitting nails in fuse holders. Either way is acceptable, your method is in the minority. here here Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjsturner Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 you said it arfur "over engineering" we just use the kit how its designed and for easy installation. shame on us! 43 years!back in the day the alarm was probably a alsation did you engineer those too?lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 you said it arfur "over engineering" we just use the kit how its designed and for easy installation. And easier than you think fault finding. shame on us! 43 years!back in the day the alarm was probably a alsation did you engineer those too?lol Not lol, bad boy ARF ARF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Older TS Menviers used to have the RKP network fused seperately from the AUX One thing I dont like about the gal is its all fed from the same fuse, so if a builder twats a cable, you cant silence it.......... I yipeee!, at least another makes exactely the same point as me, i'd add in vermin activity, carpet fitters, cables which were well laid but get pulled under floor after installation by other trades, even at later date, now on laying on hot c/h pipes, or trapped by boards etc = same result. we are not even sure if OP has used a clip gun, but we are advising a DIY installer who unlike us will not be aware to avoid the above hazards, so do we really need to say more about good practice guys? as for kit comming designed like this give me a break, what is wrong with improvement? you can buy a PSU with a single 5amp fused output, would anyone in their right mind honestly run that straight out to the detection without protection 1amp rated cables by feeding via a fuse with a lower rating? i'd be aghast if you did, so time speak some common sense please guys Arfur If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjsturner Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 so your saying because its diy we should advise him to put more kit in? carpet fitters?so after all that from the pro it seems you dont mind running cables next to gripper!priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjsturner Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Less of the trumpet blowing please - it grates after a while! more like the whole brass band! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 agreed. securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Spot on, plus if additional split up fuses are fitted the first bigger fuse still must have the same current running through. lets get this clear, additional PSU output @ 5amp, run to lower current fuse banks, so a 5 amp psu to 5 x 1 amp or 10 x 500ma fuses, the detection from there. the 5 amp fuse will still pass the same current but is a big enough wire gauge to only slightly affect voltage drop at the current we need. the lower fuse only pass enough current to run the split up detection so say 4 pirs per fuse (my own limit) plenty left and lower voltage drop effect. now we go 'your' all in one route, you 'pull' all the current for expanders, keypads and detection direct from the panel PSU, so via one fuse which on Gardtec is 1.25 amps (don't know on Tex) from the AUX, so will inflict a higher voltage drop 'penalty' becaus e the 'master' fuse is lower current rated. so which is the better practice on that alone? A control panels current should never get near it's fuse rating; if running a 7Ah battery then each PSU in the system should draw no more than 560mA standby, to get the 12 Hours + Activition required. i totally agree with that but, not an issue. You obviously haven't fitted many 100+ zone systems in your 43 years, otherwise you would see the method of running more cable and having power supplies all back at the panel is not practical. Equipment has changed and is designed to feed power in this way. you'd be amazed at the diversity of the systems i have installed - and where OSA stops me from revealing, or i'd have to kill all of you , this is not a 'peeing up the wall' contest. this is not about a shopping complex, a ministery building, national banks , rothchilds or the British Museum - but a house. Time and experience, does not grow linearly. They are not the same thing and should never be assumed they go hand in hand. so we disregaurd experience completely? hmmmm! earlier, a members experience was refered to as some sort of trump card, just to mention before starting my own business i have spent many years on service and install for Chubbs (twice), Sheld Protection, Combat Alarms and Honeywell amongst others. I don't think this helps the thread dragging random anecdotes about JB's in lofts and fitting nails in fuse holders. Either way is acceptable, your method is in the minority. pure quality usually is in the minority unfortunately, and being in it is the only acceptable way for me and why i work for myself - by myself . Arfur If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 yipeee!, at least another makes exactely the same point as me, i'd add in vermin activity, carpet fitters, cables which were well laid but get pulled under floor after installation by other trades, even at later date, now on laying on hot c/h pipes, or trapped by boards etc = same result. we are not even sure if OP has used a clip gun, but we are advising a DIY installer who unlike us will not be aware to avoid the above hazards, so do we really need to say more about good practice guys? as for kit comming designed like this give me a break, what is wrong with improvement? you can buy a PSU with a single 5amp fused output, would anyone in their right mind honestly run that straight out to the detection without protection 1amp rated cables by feeding via a fuse with a lower rating? i'd be aghast if you did, so time speak some common sense please guys Arfur You just keep riddling for an answer don't you. There is no need for improvement. You are just insistant your way is the only correct way. This is a joke we started off talking about running a couple of powered devices off a couple of keypads. In reguards the quote you refer to... The keypad will not work if the keypad fuse blows. Tunstall stuff has a seperate bus for keypads and expanders this is why an extra set of terminals/fuses. Gal and Texe don't so why bother. Either way the fuse blows call out is required. The only difference is our common fuses are monitored via intruder alarm/PSU's, so we know a fuse has gone, the system will not set. Even if the the keypad is still lit up or not. If one of your random fuse efforts blow there maybe a couple of sensors active, an easy omit later customer leaves some of the system off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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