Ronnie Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 You are looking at this from the eyes of a part of market which few alarms companies have any interest. It simply doesn't work the way in which you are describing. The advantages of IP signalling are more heavily weighed in the installers favour. Using IP signalling to keep the geek house owners happy is asking for trouble (unless they are happy to pay a hefty premium each year for this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 the proper ip solutions dont work like that soup. Its more secure than even redcare gsm. No email is involved, but i note your wanting to use email as your reporting method on your pi? securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reidy Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I think they have just confused IP signalling with IP connectivity Hey Ho, Lets Go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoupDragon Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I think they have just confused IP signalling with IP connectivity oh just Googled that and yeah, I have mixed it up a bit . the proper ip solutions dont work like that soup. Its more secure than even redcare gsm. No email is involved, but i note your wanting to use email as your reporting method on your pi? Right yeah, as like a direct replacement to a speech dialler using broadband. The IP signalling (SIA protocol?) looks interesting. Also interesting to see that it states doesn't conform to standards if it's using DNS, probably due to 'man in the middle' attacks, especially on corporate networks and the reliability of DNS. Will defiantly look more into IP signalling to see how that really works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Howard Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Suggesting DNS is a weak point seems a bit extreme and illogical. From a purely networking point of view, if a router upstream of the IP box was compromised, then the routing could be tampered with regardless. As regards earlier points on the need for UPS on the customers terminating router, don't forget that with the new FTTC 'Inifnity' broadband which is likely to be become very popular with homes and businesses (10x faster for the same money) the roadside cabs need power for the first time, not just the telephone exchanges Phone exchanges typically have batteries and gennies for power outages, and engineers all over them if they fail. A roadside cab where Paddy has dug through the cable or mr white van has knocked it over won't get the same level of attention. It has to be dual path - and then hope the local phone mast doesn't take either its comms or power from the same nearby failure. (Phone masts rarely have genny or UPS, and many are backhauled via BT fibre fed from the local exchange. I'm a bit new to the security end, but is no-one using satellite comms to avoid any reliance on domestic / terrestrial infrastructure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcarter Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Steve.....your post is interesting in that you discuss a number of communications methods of alarm signalling, called the Alarm Transmission System (ATS). In reality, it does not matter what network you are using. Whether it is PSTN, GSM/GPRS/3G, ADSL whatever, the equipment used to signal alarms to a remote location (normally an Alarm Receiving Centre) has to have some form of confirmation that the Alarm Transmission Path is available (ATP) and detection/indication when it is not. The criteria for this is laid down in the European Standards under EN50136 (and to some extent EN50131). In reality, all networks have areas of operation that will result in a loss of communication and in most cases (as you mention with radio) they all end up on the BT Backbone or share common resources. As above, its the ATS that is used to detect network failures (either intentional/malicious or otherwise). One common thread with GSM based services is "what if someone uses a jammer"? Well this is just another form of attack on the ATS/ATP, its down to the ATS to detect and indicate that a failure of the circuit has occurred. A jam is no different to someone cutting a PSTN line. Just like the Domestic situation you mention, if the equipment on site is tampered with in any way, its down to the ATS to report the failure. No one form of transmission media will be a "silver bullet". Many thought roaming would be, where using radio based services, but it's not. It just gives you another bunch of issues to contend with. Jim Carter WebWayOne Ltd www.webwayone.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 Potentially are we not looking at this from the wrong end? ie regardless of path type each has various weak points and vulnerabilities. As long as we are testing these paths regularly and correctly and we can detect a failure or an issue in any of the monitored paths. Then regardless of attack type or issue this would then be reporting. Anything that is only testing a path every 5 or 24 hours etc then we are just hopeful it will be available if actually required securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcarter Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Agreed James...what I was getting to in a long winded way I guess.. Once you've established the fact that you need to detect a failure of a network (whatever that is, and it could be a piece of wet string) and report this "somewhere"...you then determine how often you check the circuit is still there. The more often you check it, the faster you can detect it is no longer useable. Jim Carter WebWayOne Ltd www.webwayone.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 No one form of transmission media will be a "silver bullet". Many thought roaming would be, where using radio based services, but it's not. It just gives you another bunch of issues to contend with. Potentially are we not looking at this from the wrong end? ie regardless of path type each has various weak points and vulnerabilities. As long as we are testing these paths regularly and correctly and we can detect a failure or an issue in any of the monitored paths. Then regardless of attack type or issue this would then be reporting. Anything that is only testing a path every 5 or 24 hours etc then we are just hopeful it will be available if actually required And we had a Policed RedCare fail last night. Genuine burglary. The reliable option is being made extinct by lesser products.Today is our first day of IP telephony only. I can disater manage all i want with UPS, mobile fallover and a single land line etc. TBH i never considered the Cab and we are FTTC but at some point i know their will be a scenario that will catch us out. we just have to have a little faith in the reliabilaty of suppliers product and services. Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcarter Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Well said Jeff. In the majority of cases..if the ATS tells you there is a problem, there is...and funnily enough that's it's job. So many forget that. There seems to be this assumption that the network is always available and it must be the equipment or the service that is at fault. Thats especially so with PSTN (and that's not a dig at PSTN). Jim Carter WebWayOne Ltd www.webwayone.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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