Bsia Recommend Insurance Approval Before Any

[jb-eye]

...well...on the delivery it's clear cut. The SPT has to send the alarm if it has it, that's the rules we have to abide by. The ARC software will most likely (I checked with one of our partners) handle the comms fail first and restore it...then deliver the unconfirmed event. So it's keyholder only.

But this is really an academic point. In reality a single path system cannot be a confirmed system...you can't confirm a single path fail is a true alarm.

It's back to the point that you pay your money and take your chance. Digi, Grade 2 comm applications are what they are...cheap and not very good when put under close scrutiny.

..and BTW....Grouse for me + Stones Ginger..

Ive browsed through most of what you have read and one the whole see where your comming from.

I hope i dont get you out of context but the above statements dont ring true.

1. In reality a single path system cannot be a confirmed system

2. Digi, Grade 2 comm applications are what they are...cheap and not very good when put under close scrutiny.

Your owns is one that the coms not the grading is the problem. Of course single path systems can be confirmed you’re just identifying the coms as the weak link.

In regard to your cheap digi. This puts me in mind of the monitored fire alarm. Is it better to have a fire alarm monitored (ours are but only when the property is vacated) by a six core alarm cable via the intruder alarm or should we not bother with this unless it is wired in line with regulations and the appropriate standby time.

BT RedCare has a lot to answer for as line cuts became fewer and fewer. On to the back of this went those that liked the idea of MONITORED without the cost. All my engineers have Digi Comms after weighing the risk.

My own view was that we would never fit a Dualcom due to the polling. In truth we have had our hand forced so we take greatest of care to ensure that these units WILL signal and Confirm before they are a disabled.

To many regs are removing the exspertise on the ground IMO

[alterEGO]

This assessment relates solely to the grading and the design of the Intruder Alarm System according to DD CLC/TS 50131-7.The grading and design are based on a survey of the premises and information available at the time, including any valuation(s) or other information provided by the customer or the customer’s representative (e.g. Insurer)

You are advised to consult with your insurer in relation to this Intruder Alarm System Design Proposal

Every care has been taken during the preparation of the proposal to ensure it complies with the requirements of current standards.

[alterEGO]

Ive browsed through most of what you have read and one the whole see where your comming from.

I hope i dont get you out of context but the above statements dont ring true.

1. In reality a single path system cannot be a confirmed system

2. Digi, Grade 2 comm applications are what they are...cheap and not very good when put under close scrutiny.

Your owns is one that the coms not the grading is the problem. Of course single path systems can be confirmed you’re just identifying the coms as the weak link.

In regard to your cheap digi. This puts me in mind of the monitored fire alarm. Is it better to have a fire alarm monitored (ours are but only when the property is vacated) by a six core alarm cable via the intruder alarm or should we not bother with this unless it is wired in line with regulations and the appropriate standby time.

BT RedCare has a lot to answer for as line cuts became fewer and fewer. On to the back of this went those that liked the idea of MONITORED without the cost. All my engineers have Digi Comms after weighing the risk.

My own view was that we would never fit a Dualcom due to the polling. In truth we have had our hand forced so we take greatest of care to ensure that these units WILL signal and Confirm before they are a disabled.

To many regs are removing the exspertise on the ground IMO

well said

[jb-eye]

Jim Carter and anyone else who cares to coment:

Below i have attached a Policed signal that was aborted (cancel by user) on a digi attached to a Dualcom. The anomily here is the Dual com transmitted all (well almost all as the Open signal got lost in transmission) some 15 minuites + after the alarm event had been dealt with by the customer and alarm co. FIFTEEN MINUTE!!! is that acceptable?

I have this situation on Redcare systems where the Digi signals beat the R/C but rarely. The lost close signal on DualCom is a more frequent than i would like.

[james.wilson]

I'm not surprised Jef. Do you think its because both use gprs as their primAry path

[arfur mo]

But this is really an academic point. In reality a single path system cannot be a confirmed system...you can't confirm a single path fail is a true alarm.

It's back to the point that you pay your money and take your chance. Digi, Grade 2 comm applications are what they are...cheap and not very good when put under close scrutiny.

..and BTW....Grouse for me + Stones Ginger..

i'm notpreaching they are in the same league as redcare/gsm, with line fail your correct in saying comms can not be a confirmed using line fail as once was treated, my 'argument' is their is little diference in either GSM Dialer or PSTN Digi, both have stregnths and weaknese, if both are connected offers better alround if not the same level as dual com or red care.

like dual-tec detectors or fancy dan panels, they are simply selected according to the clients needs and budget within reason. GSM diallers need no cabling, many master boxes are in the hall near the front door, apart from the labour element, hiding from view etc, the family dig can't chew this cable for instance .

Arfur

[james.wilson]

Arf you have said that before. But I still don't agree.

I will start a separate topic as to why in trade

[jb-eye]

Not sure what to make of the silence. Just James. Nobody see the issue of a Dualcom signaling late?

My original concern about siting of a Dualcom OFF the entry route due to poor polling maybe very short sighted. If the Dualcom signals are being delayed then it dosent matter where you site the kit.

I rang CSL today. My rep was on a hard earned holliday (before his xmas break) but i guess he earned it with all the sales he has done.

I spoke with technical who sugested the signal strength was naff and this delayed the signal. If i had a pound for everytime i heard that scripted answer.

If the signal strength was low then the bloody thing should have used the BT line?

Last time i reported these issues to Dualcom THEY fitted a new unit with a world sim card.

I was quite firm to tech support stating "so you dont know then" the guy was quick and reffered me to Wendy Buttler customer compliaints. of course i have to write as she is possibly.

1/ on a pre xmas holliday

2/ bombed out with complaints.

Dont think it will be the latter as im sure dualcom have a rubber stamp which states "must be weak signal strength in that area"

[james.wilson]

Agreed.

It seems we never had/dont these issues with redcare gsm or non gprs paknet based dualcom leads me to wonder if gprs is good enough for primary path signalling.

You also lost an open signal on that unit, is that something that happens a lot?

Re weak signal, what is classed as weak signal and how do you test it?

Or is it highlighted by the arc or CSL on a report?

[jb-eye]

Agreed.

It seems we never had/dont these issues with redcare gsm or non gprs paknet based dualcom leads me to wonder if gprs is good enough for primary path signalling.

You also lost an open signal on that unit, is that something that happens a lot?

Re weak signal, what is classed as weak signal and how do you test it?

Or is it highlighted by the arc or CSL on a report?

You pss takin?

No GPRS isnt resiliant enough and thats based on personel exsperience.

Yes lost a few signals

A good signal today is gone tommorrow and you cant monitor it