Guest Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 To "certify" means you need to be competent in the first place, a "non-competent" would not know what was or was not part P unless you have very clued up tramps and milkman in your area...... You seem to be muddling the definitions of 'certify', 'competent' and 'part p'. To certify means you should be competent, but define competent? If you can operate a tester and fill in the minor works then you are competent. Competence and minor works certs don't neccesarily have anything to do with part p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 http://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/index.asp?p...CFT4GQgodU3zPgAIf it's good enought for Tommy Walsh it's good enough for me. (can't mention price though as it's a public forum ) No part P in Scotland though we just rely on 16th edition. Puzzling thing is, according to the info on the link, if i've read it correctly. You can be qualified to install to Part P, in a matter of days. So why did we have to spend 2-3 years at college qualifying as electricians and still not be skilled enough to to wire up a couple of sockets in a kitchen?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Puzzling thing is, according to the info on the link, if i've read it correctly. You can be qualified to install to Part P, in a matter of days. So why did we have to spend 2-3 years at college qualifying as electricians and still not be skilled enough to to wire up a couple of sockets in a kitchen?? Yep, that's about the size of it, you have read it correctly. That's why the NICEIC etc.. set up the domestic installer schemes, a mickey mouse arm of the proper inspectorates so that these qualified (debatable) people can join and carry out work. Really, IMO, the domestic installer scheme should carry a warning saying that the contractor about to work in your home probably has no idea what the hell they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Yep, that's about the size of it, you have read it correctly.That's why the NICEIC etc.. set up the domestic installer schemes, a mickey mouse arm of the proper inspectorates so that these qualified (debatable) people can join and carry out work. Really, IMO, the domestic installer scheme should carry a warning saying that the contractor about to work in your home probably has no idea what the hell they're doing. Perhaps Blair and Prescott have the political equivalent of Part P... and they're certainly not qualified to run a country, and qould in all probability struggle to run a bath! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Definition of ENGINEER a person QUALIFIED in a branch of engineering(oxford dictionary)...i am qualified in the branch of security engineering so therefore i am an engineer Fraid not. You are using the loose definition of the term Engineer. You have a choice of: Chartered Engineer (CEng) Incorporated Engineer (IEng) Engineering Technician (EngTech) First requires Hons degree + relevant approved project work to Masters level... and sitting a selection review panel Second requires degree plus relevant exra study and validated experience Third option gets you on 1st rung of ladder, if you have a minimum of NVQ3 and relevant experience. Now, based on what you told us us, guess which one you come under, and then, only if you apply and are accepted by the relevant Institute. Sorry if this comes across as high handed and/or one upmanship but as stated earlier, propoer Engineers get a tad miffed by people misrepresenting themselves as Engineers without putting in the work. The relevance of this?? Competence. are you competent to install electrical work?? Part P clouds the issue, but you are most certainly not qualified to claim to be an Engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 100% agreed im not an 'engineer' as i dont have a degree but if i did and had spent all that time and effort i would be miffedBut having said that when i was on install i was as far as i was concerned an 'alarm engineer' thats whay i said id wondered how we got away with calling ourselves that I too accept the generic term 'engineer'. Neither do i see anything wrong with it, provided it is accepted and assumed to be a general term. To be more precise, Technician is more correct. Going back to the main thread and the ridiculous situation Part P as caused. the Senior/Chief Engineer of a major project, say Terminal 5, can plan, design, oversee and be responsible for all electrical work... but he can't wire up a couple of sockets in a kitchen without the Part P. Utter madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul P Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Third option gets you on 1st rung of ladder, if you have a minimum of NVQ3 and relevant experience. I have a NVQ3 as a building electrician? Can I be an engineer now please:-) Still cant work in my own kitchen though:-( Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luggsey Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 You seem to be muddling the definitions of 'certify', 'competent' and 'part p'.To certify means you should be competent, but define competent? If you can operate a tester and fill in the minor works then you are competent. Competence and minor works certs don't neccesarily have anything to do with part p. I think you are muddled if you can't define competent, in your world the milkman is doing minor works forms.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones! My Amateur Radio Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Fraid not. You are using the loose definition of the term Engineer. You have a choice of:Chartered Engineer (CEng) Incorporated Engineer (IEng) Engineering Technician (EngTech) First requires Hons degree + relevant approved project work to Masters level... and sitting a selection review panel Second requires degree plus relevant exra study and validated experience Third option gets you on 1st rung of ladder, if you have a minimum of NVQ3 and relevant experience. Now, based on what you told us us, guess which one you come under, and then, only if you apply and are accepted by the relevant Institute. Sorry if this comes across as high handed and/or one upmanship but as stated earlier, propoer Engineers get a tad miffed by people misrepresenting themselves as Engineers without putting in the work. The relevance of this?? Competence. are you competent to install electrical work?? Part P clouds the issue, but you are most certainly not qualified to claim to be an Engineer. couldnt find a yellow thing dodging hammers been thrown by engineer friend point of kitchen fitter course ( one of my customers is a NIC assesment cenrte) is it only qulifies you for the ticket to be able to issue a part p comliance cert the people going on these course only want to do there own part of the job and know they are restricted to just that element no one in the real world would then go on and claim they were an electrition and start rewiring the local stately home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 couldnt find a yellow thing dodging hammers been thrown by engineer friend point of kitchen fitter course ( one of my customers is a NIC assesment cenrte) is it only qulifies you for the ticket to be able to issue a part p comliance cert the people going on these course only want to do there own part of the job and know they are restricted to just that element no one in the real world would then go on and claim they were an electrition and start rewiring the local stately home I agree that those who appreciate that Part P does not make you a fully qualified sparks the content info published on that link (repeated below) suggests, certainly to me, that a 5 day course makes you safe/competent/qualified/authorised to work on a variety of installations. Read carefully, it only states 'competent' but as you don't need any formal quals for the course how the hell can you be competent in only 5 days?? The worrying part is that the site shows the NICEIC logo More and more this government devalue formal qualifications and training. 17 yr old, straight out of school with a GCSE in slobbing about, 5 days on this course makes you more competent and authorized to wire up a kitchen than some one who has gone through a full Electricians training, parts A,B,C 16th edition, inspection etc. Truly the inmates are now running the asylum. http://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/index.asp?PageID=81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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