Guest anguscanplay Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 if it is nonsense (i'm not a sparks so have some patience) - why do you have to attach stickers to warn of the new wiring when adding to existing to those very same profesionals then?or is that not 'regs' :!: regs alan because mr public thinks he has a right to fiddle with his deadly mains but will run away if he see`s a bit of gas pipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luggsey Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 if it is nonsense (i'm not a sparks so have some patience) - why do you have to attach stickers to warn of the new wiring when adding to existing to those very same profesionals then?or is that not 'regs' :!: regs alan That's a reg to be sure, it's mainly for three phase IMHO as black is no longer neutral so our chums in the EU decided! Alan, when you fit a spur do you do a EFLI test with a calibrated EFLI tester? If not how do you know what you just installed even has an earth conductor that is connected to earth? You may well have stuck a few spurs in that are not earthed leaving a metel cased panel like a ticking timebomb for the next poor sod who touches it! It's no good saying it's down to someone else as it's down to the installer now. I think if part P had been for the likes of alarm installers who "need" to be taught the basics then it would have been a good idea. The thought floating around the electricial forums is that sparks should be registered by confirming their C&G and some work history (a la JIB cards). This is a much more sensible way to do things, the law should be changed to make ANY installation work by unskilled illegal. (and thoses who flout this law should be heavily fined too!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones! My Amateur Radio Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Don't be ridiculous, appliance leads have been those colours for years so everyone knows what they mean.And professionals definitely should................. In many ways surely it should be simpler and safer as new stuff will be consistent. Not when it comes to 3 phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 That's a reg to be sure, it's mainly for three phase IMHO as black is no longer neutral so our chums in the EU decided!Alan, when you fit a spur do you do a EFLI test with a calibrated EFLI tester? If not how do you know what you just installed even has an earth conductor that is connected to earth? You may well have stuck a few spurs in that are not earthed leaving a metel cased panel like a ticking timebomb for the next poor sod who touches it! It's no good saying it's down to someone else as it's down to the installer now. I think if part P had been for the likes of alarm installers who "need" to be taught the basics then it would have been a good idea. The thought floating around the electricial forums is that sparks should be registered by confirming their C&G and some work history (a la JIB cards). This is a much more sensible way to do things, the law should be changed to make ANY installation work by unskilled illegal. (and thoses who flout this law should be heavily fined too!) hi lugsey, for a long time now i have used Gardtec panels, which in the main had plastic housings (so no risk of shock from the case). with recent developements i have switched to metal, and with legislation i get the client to arrange the spur. if i go to anothers system i test with a neon screwdriver first - not my fingers. i have had several occasions when the numpty supposedly professional and trained sparks, inadvertantly connected live to the earh terminals. the first thing i was taught about electrics is not to trust anyone else with your own life. i don't have the calibrated EFLI tester, prior times usually the system is placed close by the fuse board. so if i instal the spur it would be directly off this. i observed the earth connection as a matter of course, testing to a local water pipe with a meter, also i test with a nean screwdriver, and 'live to earth' with a small wattage bulb and test probe leads so i know there is a decent earth. i'm especially careful in older houses or with any sign of new plastic pipe plumbing. so did i pass my trade test? beleive me, i am very careful, and anyway it's retched bad practice and bad for buisness if you happen to kill he client before they pay you if at all unsure, or the supply has to be got into say a cupboard off a distant socket, so i usually get the client to have the spur fitted by a sparks - i just don't do possible liability and i don't need the extra hassle involved. i earn more doing my job than someone elses. quite often getting the supply in place time wise, is just not worth while for the client, as i work mostly London from Essex, so if i lose say 1/3 of a day installing the spur it's just not cost effective to make the extra return journey needed to complete the alam, well for what i can honourably charge . from what i understood of previous dicussions i could legally still install a new spur direct of the fuseboard, yet i'd need to certificate if i branched of an existing socket - if so, imo thats really daft given the much higher risks involved of openning the fuse board a fishing wire through it, while potentially exposed to 100 amp company breaker. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 from what i understood of previous dicussions i could legally still install a new spur direct of the fuseboard, yet i'd need to certificate if i branched of an existing socket - if so, imo thats really daft given the much higher risks involved of openning the fuse board a fishing wire through it, while potentially exposed to 100 amp company breaker.regs alan sorry to say this is exactly why we need the stricter level of regs exactly the wrong way round arfur - alterations , additions and extenstions unless in a prohibited area - kitchen,bathroom and outside are outside of part p requirments new curcuits , distribution units are within the part p requirments neon drivers and bulbs on a bit of wire ! - either one could kill you - i expected better - wher`s the will kept angus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 sorry to say this is exactly why we need the stricter level of regsexactly the wrong way round arfur - alterations , additions and extenstions unless in a prohibited area - kitchen,bathroom and outside are outside of part p requirments new curcuits , distribution units are within the part p requirments neon drivers and bulbs on a bit of wire ! - either one could kill you - i expected better - wher`s the will kept angus what on earth are you on about dear boy? i'm not using a neon screwdriver obtained from a local boot sale but from RS, the test leads for the lamp are made from heavy duty insulated meter leads, again from RS - and as used on most decent quality meters. i might be a bit of an old fairy, but i don't want to be a christmas tree illumination. anyway it's all hypothetical to me, like i say these days the client gets a sparks in - after all who needs all those confussing regulations to fuss about? i know i don't . it would make more sense to me to ban the sale of such electrical equipement to the DIY public, make it all trade only. but do we really want such a 'nanny state'? next will need a deploma to be allowed to cross a road unassisted by a lollypop lady/man. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luggsey Posted May 18, 2007 Author Share Posted May 18, 2007 Read it and weep, Labour huh! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones! My Amateur Radio Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul P Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Read it and weep, Labour huh! It does look like a B*****ks to the lot of use you can have a opinion but we aren Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luggsey Posted May 18, 2007 Author Share Posted May 18, 2007 It does look like a B*****ks to the lot of use you can have a opinion but we aren ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones! My Amateur Radio Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sparky169 Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 mind you one thing that would be better in regulations is to ban those DANGEROUS neon screwdrivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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