bellman Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 insist on having the engineer and master codes are given to you on hand over. *FAINTS* The end user has every right to the master code, but none at all for the engineer code and it would be highly unprofessional to give it to anyone outside of the security company. QFA. There could also be a liability issue as Lurch pointed out above. Regards Bellman Service Engineer and all round nice bloke ) The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Giles Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Arfur mo, codes Advice like this should not be given out by a so called expert! Think it needs to be deleted as it is misleading people. Mods? PG Security Systems Somerset SSAIB Certificate of Merit Installers. www.pgsecurity.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pumbaa Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I can see why giving the engineers default code is a big No No and if my future system is under warranty or service agreement then i'd agree there is no way i the user should be allowed any code thay could seriously mess up the system. But can't this code be changed? If so when you install a system do you leave at the the default of do you change it? If it can be changed then if as customer i was coming to the end of my service agreement could you not change the code and provide this to the customer with the warning signed by them that the system is no longer covered by your service and you are no longer liable. What they do with this code is then up to them. If this customer was then to go to another company for service, then the new service could then request the code and change it as part of the ageement. the customer won't know this code so can't mess the system up whilst it's under agreement. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I can see why giving the engineers default code is a big No No and if my future system is under warranty or service agreement then i'd agree there is no way i the user should be allowed any code thay could seriously mess up the system.But can't this code be changed? If so when you install a system do you leave at the the default of do you change it? It can be changed If it can be changed then if as customer i was coming to the end of my service agreement could you not change the code and provide this to the customer with the warning signed by them that the system is no longer covered by your service and you are no longer liable. What they do with this code is then up to them. Yep - code can be changed to whatever you want If this customer was then to go to another company for service, then the new service could then request the code and change it as part of the ageement. the customer won't know this code so can't mess the system up whilst it's under agreement. Some panels can be defaulted, some can't. Just a thought. Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antinode Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 insist on having the engineer and master codes are given to you on hand over, you are not on 'Police Response' so do not need engineer resets (which requires engineers code). Sorry, but I think it is bloody irresponsible to hand over the engineer code to the customer. There's a reason it's called the engineers code, and the customer has absolutely no use for it. If a system is not communicated to an ARC, then by all means program all resets as customer only, but I would never give out an engineer code for reasons mentioned previously. Most customers have enough problems remembering their own number anyway! Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breff Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Sorry, but I think it is bloody irresponsible to hand over the engineer code to the customer. There's a reason it's called the engineers code, and the customer has absolutely no use for it. If a system is not communicated to an ARC, then by all means program all resets as customer only, but I would never give out an engineer code for reasons mentioned previously. Most customers have enough problems remembering their own number anyway! Agreed, especially as the biggest cause of false alarms according to statistics is USER ERROR. The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Be realistic. The equipment belongs to the customer. Who are you to not give them the code if they have paid you for it? They come off contract, or go with another company, you telling me that you won't give them a default user code? Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pumbaa Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 So if you were to give a customer who is not under either at the end of their warranty or Service aggrement the changed Engineers Code i.e. not the default and not a standard code for your company. What harm is that? If they choose to mess with their system and completely bugger it up surely thats their problem. If they call you or a different comany and it becomes your problem then their out of warranty or service aggrement so you charge them. As a customer i'd have no argument with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 If I were to have an alarm installed which I had paid outright for, and decided not to take up a service agreement meaning that the alarm was completely mine, I would expect all the codes, I wouldn't however expect the codes to be unique to the installation company. You are able to programme the installation code on install right? well if it was me I would probably offer a couple of options. If the system was a one off install and the engineer code was requested, I would provide a unique number as requested by the customer, I would then provide the user manual (never installation manual) and a sealed envelope containing the engineers code with a void sticker on it, so if that envelope was opened up before the warranty of the system and install ran out then all warranty is void. If the system was under a service contract then I would not allow the customer to have the engineers code, when the contract ended and the customer wanted the engineers code then I would refer them to the agreement they initially signed that engineers codes will be changed at the customers request for a standard call out charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 What a kafuffle!If the customer refuses a maintenance agreement prior to install then dont install. Simple. No wonder we have so many poor engineers. Protect your installation if the customer cancels the contract then he can get the next service co to default the panel and re-program to their agreed design. This is quite important due to the maintaining company Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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