morph Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 The sooner manufacturers actually realise that it would be better to make all controls programmable from encrypted PDA's only the better. Each software package unique to the installer and the company, with a rolling 30day activation code. This would take all programming thoughts from the customer and help to ensure a professional service at all times. Radical I know, but it would be best all round, first manufacturer to offer this will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova-Security Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 insist on having the engineer and master codes are given to you on hand over, you are not on 'Police Response' so do not need engineer resets (which requires engineers code). Maste codes are always given to the customer, engineers code is there for a reason, arfur mo are you in the trade if so do you give all your customer your engineer code ? No wonder we have so many poor engineers. Protect your installation if the customer cancels the contract then he can get the next service co to default the panel and re-program to their agreed design. This is quite important due to the maintaining company www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Be realistic. The equipment belongs to the customer. Depends on the company No wonder we have so many poor engineers. Protect your installation if the customer cancels the contract then he can get the next service co to default the panel and re-program to their agreed design. This is quite important due to the maintaining company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morph Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Nice idea, another idea would be something like a usb flash stick (obviosly not a usb flash disk) with encrypted information identifying the company and the engineer. The engineer would then have his own pin that works with the stick.Not a good idea, staff leave move on how many sticks do you loose, and if the engineer pin is unique to the stick, unless the panel was downloaded to as soon as a stick is lost or an eng leaves, the system would fall down. Not to mention the cost of time involved in reprogramming panels It would be unfair for the panel not to have some sort of default method, otherwise a fall out with the alarm company could get very expensive if the panel needs to be replaced. Yes a back door is needed, how easy you make would need a lot of thought This sort of thing would provide a secure system for those who need a proffesional system. It would be the dividing line between diy and professional. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morph Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Nice idea, another idea would be something like a usb flash stick (obviosly not a usb flash disk) with encrypted information identifying the company and the engineer. The engineer would then have his own pin that works with the stick.Not a good idea, staff leave move on how many sticks do you loose, and if the engineer pin is unique to the stick, unless the panel was downloaded to as soon as a stick is lost or an eng leaves, the system would fall down. Not to mention the cost of time involved in reprogramming panels I didnt think that one through, but you could say the same about PDA's could you not? Not really, if like a lot of companies engineers are being issued with PDA's for PPM's, installation jobs, callouts and billings, it woudl be a simple matter to have an encrypted software that holds key to the software, the pda would not access the panels with out the correct code of the day from the installing companies main computer system, it gets changed every so often or even daily if the engineers PDA's are online to the office. the link between the panel and the PDA is dependant on the exchange from the office PC, if this exchange does not take place within set encrypted requirements the pda is disabled and the panel locks out requesting an office reset. the engineer doesn't need to know the encryption and nor does the office, in fact would you actually need to view programming on an RKP It would also help to add value to to the product/ service provided. It would be unfair for the panel not to have some sort of default method, otherwise a fall out with the alarm company could get very expensive if the panel needs to be replaced. Yes a back door is needed, how easy you make would need a lot of thought This sort of thing would provide a secure system for those who need a proffesional system. It would be the dividing line between diy and professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 You'd give out engineer codes on request as long as they are not on police response? I'd hate to be you when someone unprograms all their detectors and then blames you when they get cleaned out. if i were worried the client would 'unprogram all the detectors' i would assume he/she was bright enough to save the effort and simply put boxes over them. i use the higher end G593/5 and G816/850 Gardtec Panels even on small installations, on completion i take a program backup, downloaded on to my laptop, so any engineering changes can be identified - and proved with ease. i'm surprised i have to exsplain all this for what is for me a normal and prudent activity to a fellow engineer, do you not fill in a programming chart on your installs (that is required if you are NACOSS or SSAIB and have you never wondered why you have to do it?) we are supposed to be professionals on here, but i suppose there is no substitute for experience and guile. so in the light of the above, and for anyone who is still awake, giving the end client the engineer code is not a liability problem when on a 'bells only' outright sale. apart from being an honest transparrent approach, the client actually has a legal right to it (previous legal experiences when working for other companies bears this out). they have bought the system in full and outright, not on loan, lease or rental. so once the money changes hands the code is legally theirs, they have paid you to inplemement the programming using your understanding and skills, not to ne tied to you otherwise they would have rented it from you. the car analogy 'does not run' if you excuse the pun, although you do not get a full workshop manual with the spanking new car, or a set of tools you are not actively barred or obstructed from easily obtaining them either. and you ARE given the radio reset code. so for those who are aspiring to be, here is a guide -: as a very careful and proffesional company, the system is tested in front of and signed for by the end client (the one who paid for it) as fully functional, and to their full satisfaction, including customer training. my forms points out a disclaimer - and not in the small print - that giving the client the engineer code may have ramifications regarding any later liability claims. they are also advised of the backup existance to deter any dodgy tricks. 'engineer reset' sysems are obviously not given the engineers code, but are given a free visit to change it back to factory code on cancellation of the the monitoring, for any reason other than no-payment but that is not the issue with the original enquirer - or is it?. i trade as Eye 2 Eye Security - it simply means no hold backs, i look the client in the eye and give them all sides of the issues to the best of my abilities, even if it means losing the sale, i am very comfortable with this ethos - i suggest you try it sometime. Arfur brain cell?did you get a workshop manual & factory tools when you splashed out on the wife car. see my later reply - it will exsplain all - its not how many brain sells you have but how many are in working order at any given time - how many do you claim to have in working order then - at any time:) If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellman Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Giving out the engineer code is irresponsible not just industry frowned on. *QFA* It's not just programming changes you need to be worried about, engineering access leaves the door wide open to 3rd party mods and wiring changes. How can you prove the customer hasn't caused the fault themselves? Regards Bellman Service Engineer and all round nice bloke ) The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.paul Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 so for those who are aspiring to be, here is a guide -:as a very careful and proffesional company, the system is tested in front of and signed for by the end client (the one who paid for it) as fully functional, and to their full satisfaction, including customer training. my forms points out a disclaimer - and not in the small print - that giving the client the engineer code may have ramifications regarding any later liability claims. they are also advised of the backup existance to deter any dodgy tricks. Have you checked your Efficacy insurances to see if you are still covered, after you give your customer the engineer code There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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