zerozero Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 I don't believe, I know. Sorry, then how do you know? I hope you understand that I'm not being disrespectful or impertinent. You especially have been really helpful in this thread. I've never installed an alarm system before, I've done a lot of research on my own and read as much as I can find on helping myself for this project to be a success but this information is patchy (with the installers guide(s) being the single most comprehensive source of information) and I totally appreciate that nothing is a substitute for experience. This is why I am on these forums and I appreciate all the help I get but I have to do this DIY and I want to do this properly and learn rather than get told what to do and copy parrot fashion. I only get one go at this being a DIYer and if I can get the planning right and get all the right bits, I have a better chance of it all working right and also a better chance of me being able to deal with issues during operation. In this case I'm getting told one thing from the installers guide and one thing from you on this thread. That is fine, guides can be wrong, good professionals can be mistaken, misunderstand the question or the question can be unclear.. and I'm sure there are other possibilities. I'm just trying to establish which it is in this case as you are being very specific but contradicting exactly what is in the installer guide for the exact product I'm planning to install, but not substantiating it with anything that helps me make a decision on how to proceed. So if you can let me know how you have come to know this, it would really help me. either way, thanks for all the help so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 1) this professional ain't wrong 2) texecoms own website says the splitter is for premier, not premier elite http://www.texe.com/uk/products/series/ 3) elites have a switch mode power supply so nowhere to wire the splitter to 4) the standard you reference pd6662:2004 is now invalid as the 2010 version now exists www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 1) this professional ain't wrong 2) texecoms own website says the splitter is for premier, not premier elite http://www.texe.com/uk/products/series/ 3) elites have a switch mode power supply so nowhere to wire the splitter to 4) the standard you reference pd6662:2004 is now invalid as the 2010 version now exists Ding! Nice link I know Texecom controls pretty well, I should do being in contact with them everyday. I have also installed many Premiers/Elite's and a good few Battery Splitters. Manuals have been known to have errors, I imagine most of the Elite manual was cut from the Premier Manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerozero Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 2) texecoms own website says the splitter is for premier, not premier elite http://www.texe.com/uk/products/series/ but there are lots of non-elite products that work ok with the elite box (e.g. the fire detectors are all premier, not elite produts, but they are all compatible) and it doesn't say that it doesn't work with elite. It is true that it doesn't list the battery splitter in the elite sales brochure part list and there is no battery splitter information anywhere else on the site (install guide etc).. which leans towards the manual being wrong but still somewhat inconclusive.. 3) elites have a switch mode power supply so nowhere to wire the splitter to Oh I thought that you connect the batteries to the battery splitter and the splitter to the single pair of battery terminals on the board - nothing to do with the power supply.. but as I can't find any installation instructions I'm happy to be wrong. 4) the standard you reference pd6662:2004 is now invalid as the 2010 version now exists Ok, so I can see that there is no mention of the battery splitter in any of the PD6662:2010 certificates and I guess that if it were still valid it would be, although I don't know if it would be specifically certificated if it were a passive utility in a board. but anyway. the point was made that it wouldn't work, not that it isn't certified. But tbh I would rather not do anything knowingly that wouldn't be certifiable. I think I'll drop a mail to texecom and tell them that it seems their guide is wrong and that may clarify this issue So my main concern really is that with 2 bells (one in SCB and one in LC mode), 4 exodus fire detectors and 3 QD anti-masks my board is still going to draw max 0.978 and normal 0.126. That is the minimum I think I can do on the board. I was hoping to add com-ip, Premier LCD-P and 32XP-W also initially to the boards power supply but this puts the draw at (0.626 normal and 1.228 max) which means I can't get even 12h with 1x7Ah battery, which I understand is also against regs. So if there is really no way to have 2 batteries in here I think I will have to go for a 17Ah. and then downsize later when I get another PSU I guess there is no way to boost the panel's power supply with a PSU200?.. only to power additional items. It just seems weird that you are so restricted on the main panel, cannot have battery redundancy (but you can on the external psu's) and I can't see how you could ever get anywhere close to a 24h rated on battery power unless you had virtually nothing in the box at all. If the 17Ah fails like others have experienced, maybe then I'll take that opportunity split the thing up a bit and add a psu200 then. Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 The fire detectors have clean contact relays so compatible with any alarm system, not just premiers. Fire detectors have **** all to do with battery splitters. The battery splitter did require wiring to the power supply. You are wrong, again. By the picture on texecoms website this is quite clear. If you want it to be certifiable then your choice is simple. 1 x 7ah or 1 x 17ah. No battery splitter choice anymore. There is no way to 'boost' the panels psu. It is what it it is. Need more power? Simple. Add a power supply. Your assumptions on standby time are correct and also correct in the certified world that limits what power you can draw on it. That's life and what psu's are for. Your expectations maybe a little high. Although premier is in the pro range, it is far from the top of it. It is a simple burglar alarm designed for electricians and diyers who want to play at being alarm engineers and texecom have made it simple enough that the less able can fit a system. Don't expect too much of it. www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 1 x 7ah or 1 x 17ah. No battery splitter choice anymore.deja-vu? but there are lots of non-elite products that work ok with the elite box .. which leans towards the manual being wrong but still somewhat inconclusive.. Oh I thought that you connect the batteries to the battery splitter and the splitter to the single pair of battery terminals on the board - nothing to do with the power supply.. but as I can't find any installation instructions I'm happy to be wrong. I think I'll drop a mail to texecom and tell them that it seems their guide is wrong and that may clarify this issue These item say "Elite compatible" and have been changed to "xyz elite xyz". No doubt our resident Texe bod has picked up on this and it will be fixed in the next revision, if it hasn't already. I guess there is no way to boost the panel's power supply with a PSU200?.. only to power additional items. It just seems weird that you are so restricted on the main panel, cannot have battery redundancy (but you can on the external psu's) and I can't see how you could ever get anywhere close to a 24h rated on battery power unless you had virtually nothing in the box at all. Correct, we will normally connect the comms, a keypad, bell and speaker from the mains controls, maybe use he zones for contacts or the odd detector. This works well especially on larger systems. It's the same method with all the larger Texecom panels. Remember a 640 has no zones on the panel anyway. Remember it's our choice not to fit 17Ah batteries they are designed to take them hence the Battery Load jumper. So if there is really no way to have 2 batteries in here I think I will have to go for a 17Ah. and then downsize later when I get another PSU If the 17Ah fails like others have experienced, maybe then I'll take that opportunity split the thing up a bit and add a psu200 then. There is no way to 'boost' the panels psu. It is what it it is. Need more power? Simple. Add a power supply. Your assumptions on standby time are correct and also correct in the certified world that limits what power you can draw on it. That's life and what psu's are for. Your expectations maybe a little high.Save the effort and fit more PSU's to start with. This means you have space for additions. You need to remember not to only common the negative between PSU's. Commoning the positives will "boost" the PSU's this may sound good but is BAD, do not do this (hence "no way to boost" is correct). With you liking evidence for professional opinions, to save me explaining further; check out page 20 on said manual. Although premier is in the pro range, it is far from the top of it. It is a simple burglar alarm designed for electricians and diyers who want to play at being alarm engineers and texecom have made it simple enough that the less able can fit a system. Don't expect too much of it.Texecom is good gear, you make it sound basic. Things are only simple when you know them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Never said it wasn't good gear but it is the Sparkie panel of choice. But it's just a burglar alarm and other panels have way more features and options such as ATS, Siemens etc www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Matthew, what was your panel of choice pre 4i? Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goncall Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Matthew, what was your panel of choice pre 4i? depends who he fell out with at the time,we all know the bestest and worstist ones he liked..that changed sharpish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSE Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 After reading a bit more of this, I cant make my mind up what's going on here.... So Mr DIY joins the forum to get help and assistance from professional installers, Yet question the advice given..... because the manual says so This has got a Bears @rse written all over it, I wouldn't be worrying about standards or codes of practice from the questions you're asking. I can see it now, Burgled at 3am...... Didn't get woken up because I didn't hear the speaker going ........ Insurance headache written all over it Pay the money, Get it done right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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