datadiffusion Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I have 2 rate of rise in the attic (one each end of the house) - lots of wood in the attic and electrics and yet most people don't fire alarm their attic space! *** One of those DT (wireless) are destined for the the garage [...] I would have thought I'd be more likely to just have false alarms with just PIRs (and quads in hostile environments etc)? *** So yes, I will eventually put a 2400 in there probably to alert me/someone, but for now it will be bells only and I will probably give a trusted neighbor a key and low privilege code if they want it. If the building is on fire, the alarm should draw attention faster than without and if a burgular is brave/stupid enough to break in to an alarmed house and not leggit as soon as the alarm goes off, it is unlikely anything will help. Thats when I call the insurance company Thanks Rulland, Ah, I see that now I've got the Odyssey install manual Thanks. Is the battery built in to the sounder then? Yeah, so I think one on SCB mode makes the most sense as it reduces the volume. The only reason I have 2 bells is an active bell is only 30 quid more than a dummy and it gives a little extra redundancy if someone wants to attack the bell directly. Unlikely but £30 not a bad deal and only a little extra one-off work. 1. RofR (to me, again, I'm not a fire installer, but regularly attach Texecom smokes to intruder systems) seems wrong in a loft where you can get massive swings in temperature, naturally? I have smokes in my loft, my parents loft, and numerous other customers with no issues? Don't forget the texecom smokes are also multi's. 2. When I say false alarms, its only with 2 detectors you'll ever get a confirmed alarm, so what I mean is, if you get an alert saying 'garage doot contact', and you're 100 miles away, yea its probably going to be that the door opened, but you can't be too sure short of CCTV confirmation. Get the garage door followed by the DT in the garage, i.e. whats called a confirmed alarm, you know 99.9% that isn't just going to be a coincidence, and can act accordingly. But.... 3. ...If its bells only, ignore 2.) As for the alarm making a fire easier to spot, don't believe it. Last Xmas one of my customers houses would have burnt to the ground were it not for monitoring, neighbours (who WERE keyholders) ignored the bell but DID respond to the call from the monitoring company. Yes, it is true that if the alarm itself can generate enough noise to scare an intruder it's done its job, but with no monitoring or poor monitoring, you run the risk of having a break in with no intervention leaving your house totally unsecured for a day, week, month whatever until you (or the burglars mates) come back... 4. Yes the bells do have a battery, its included, all sirens sold as SAB or SCB will. Siren attack is unlikely on a domestic, despite what corrie tells you. So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 http://www.watchmywallet.co.uk/news/2013/july/almost-two-thirds-of-britons-ignore-burglar-alarms-are-burglar-alarms-even-worth-the-money/ Bells only alarms are a waste of space www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerozero Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Good point on the temp fluctuations ROR in loft as it is dusty up there but it is insulated on the pitch so it shouldn't fluctuate as much as normal (ceiling level insulated) attics in this country. Interesting that you have used the optical ones in the attic.. if that works ok without false alarms it probably is better so I see what you mean about not needing ROR as standard have ror + optical. Tbh I understand and am happy that an alarm increases the security but does not make impregnable. The stats that have been quoted still say that 1/3 of people would react to bells only, which is still better response than no alarm and I'm more interested in being aware if there is a burglar in the house at the same time as any of my family rather than too bothered if no-one is in - that is what I pay insurance companies for. Personal security is more important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Those stats are based on a very limited section of a very specific community - although totally agree with the overall sentiment that bells get ignored - 100% true. They are hardly research grade and I'd never base any decisions on them. My experience of post-break in quotes also rides against the '300 years' stat. Not withstanding the fact that sample numbers and methods were not disclosed, I for one totally dispute the 1/3 would investigate, that's like the '100% that would pull a knife wielding mugger off a stranger', Easy to say, harder to do; reality suggests otherwise, as famous cases have proven. If you're not bothered about what burglars do in your house when you're not there, I can only assume you're one of the lucky ones that has never been burgled! So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Take it you have dd? I've never had the 'pleasure'. Mum has, 4 times and had a terrible effect for years, even with having alarms and CCTV installed post event. www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Not here but in London. Lets just say those cuts on council public conveniences must have had an effect.... TBH I had nothing nicked, because I had nothing to nick. Luckilly, by pure chance, I'd decided to put my half decent stereo on my bench at work. Everything else in my room turfed out onto the floor though. They left the 1980s Hitatchi TV, funny enough! I had only been living there a month and my god it pushed me 2 others to find somewhere much better within weeks! I've never had the 'pleasure'. Mum has, 4 times and had a terrible effect for years, even with having alarms and CCTV installed post event. That's pretty bad luck. My parents would have, they kicked the door in broad daylight - but, being a 1930s house, the lock housing rotated round 45 degrees in the hardwood frame and jammed the door solid. This was a week after the neighbours got done. That's when they got an alarm (1991 I think it was). p.s private note - must call webway re: that spt... So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerozero Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 As you guys all well know, you are just reducing risk by increasing cost/complexity. The reduction in risk is different for each installation and the cost/benefit varies on a number of factors.I know a number of my neighbours would take interest on alarm (assuming it doesn't false alarm often, which is why I'm doing my research). Of course my neighbours might change and because I've done this DIY I can be more flexible to adjust. I don't believe that a bells only system is equivalent to no system as has been suggested. I'm also not particularly happy about putting people I care about (neighbours/friends/family) unnecessarily in harms way to protect replaceable items. Obviously I don't want it to happen, I'm just not going to try to stop it at any cost. So really just installing a 2400 and/or GSM is going to be of limited benefit without employing an ARC at a recurring cost which I'm not prepared to pay for right now. so then I am in Police response URN territory which is even more cost and complexity. So for now, happy with bells only and perhaps a 2400 to alert me if I am in the area to do anything about it. I may chat with the neighbours to see if any of them might want to be alerted and/or keyholders but like I say this is all very much secondary for what I want the alarm for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 As you guys all well know, you are just reducing risk by increasing cost/complexity. >>> Totally disagree. Absolutely meaningless statement. I don't believe that a bells only system is equivalent to no system as has been suggested. I'm also not particularly happy about putting people I care about (neighbours/friends/family) unnecessarily in harms way to protect replaceable items. Obviously I don't want it to happen, I'm just not going to try to stop it at any cost. >>> Sadly, that is EXACTLY what you do when you ask someone to hold a key for a bells only alarm (as you mentioned earlier), and approach knowing nothing about why, when and how it went off. So really just installing a 2400 and/or GSM is going to be of limited benefit without employing an ARC at a recurring cost which I'm not prepared to pay for right now. so then I am in Police response URN territory which is even more cost and complexity. So for now, happy with bells only and perhaps a 2400 to alert me if I am in the area to do anything about it. I may chat with the neighbours to see if any of them might want to be alerted and/or keyholders but like I say this is all very much secondary for what I want the alarm for. >>> No, monitored does not mean compulsory URN whatsoever. And zero extra complexity if done correctly. When using the alarm, my customers would have no idea they were monitored unless I hadn't told them! Properly monitored means that you have a much higher chance of the signal getting though, and the loss of reporting ability being notified. No-one on here is trying to put you off DIYing it, there is nothing wrong with that, if you are aware of the limitations of it. What people on here do take exception to is the usual round of people trying to talk themselves round that DIY is as good - if not better - than professionally installed, that all risks are so remote they will 'never happen to me' and generally not listening to the advice given from people who do this for a living. p.s Sorry James. So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I would also say all that kit is too much for one pus and or 14A/h of batts securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I would also say all that kit is too much for one pus and or 14A/h of batts Yep. Problem is same with some of the PSU's we buy. They see 3a PSU so assume can draw 3 amps from it www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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