Barn Conversion Project

[james.wilson]

Ive bought a old barn and will be converting it.

No mains gas, sewerage.

As its a blank sheet i want to put things in id never do to an existing house.

Im thinking of having a groundsource heat pump, taking the well water for the toilets, washing machine, car washing etc (i was looking at rainwater recyling but it cant see the point if i have a well.

Im also thinking if solar panels (maybe but its G2 listed so that might not be an option anyway.

Its got a floor area of 320 sq m

i reakon i can sort out the cctv, intruder fire etc, but i know little about ful home automation, heat recovery systems, heatpumps etc.

Anyone here have any useful experience before i go looking?

[jnealon]

320sq m, you would get a lot water run off from a roof that size. I would be inclined to bury a 10000L tank as you'll be doing a lot of digging for the geo-thermal, septic tank etc.

Would you be allowed to put up a wind turbine

[Guest Oxo]

Hmmmmm 4x 60 mt bore holes would be what you need with a 14kw pump. That should do all the central heating, mind you its a slow dissipation so you would need good thermal insulation. Might be difficult depending on the G2 status.

Also it would struggle with DHW at 70c, you would still need grid power, unless as above a wind turbine.

A thermal store buried would catch used energy, think a oil tanker burried with water and rust inhibitors.

[james.wilson]

great stuff.

jneleon, the floor area is that not the roof area. roof area id have to calculate. Roofs in good nick but the tiles have to come off for it to be felted.

I was consdering PV tiles, but only researched them today. one sode of the roof is south facing.

Id assume i could put up a turbine. Its fairly exposed so would be a good location.... not sure if i want one. Dont get me wrong im no eco warrior just want to have low running costs on it.

Im assuming when they put the mains water feed into the house ill ned up with a meter. If so i want to limit what foes through it. I was thinking of a rain water recycling system, but when i have a well and i can pull as much water out of that (i assume) for free cant see the benefit of burying another tank etc.

Mains power is available as a 240v pole is about 30m away. So i will be getting mains power, water and telecoms.

But nothing else.

I will need an auto start genertaor in time (wont be able to afford it straigt away but it will be cabled for one, and a large UPS etc.

I want to have all the media stored centrally and piped to the required room. I dont want sky boxes etc in the lounge, just a screen. Due to the space i have i plan to make 5 bedrooms (i need 4) a study and a media/games room big enough for a pool table.

I like the idea of a heat pump, but oxo the buried heat store? Does that use solar to warm it, would i need one with the heatpump, what i have read so far about heat pumps is they are not so hot on their own for hot water?

My dad has an air source heat pump, but i dont think its that efficient, cheaper than mains gas yes, a lot cheaper than LPG (which im on now) but better? im not so sure.

I dont want to buy twice etc, but i do want to buy at a good price but buy the right thing.

I also wanty to save as many pennies as i can and spec it all myself, project manage it, and do the bits i can do (ie might get a pro in for the alarm)

[norman]

great stuff. (ie might get a pro in for the alarm)

there's someone on here who does a friends and family foc deal.

[Guest Oxo]

TBH I googled that.

http://www.gshp.org.uk/faqs.htm

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Ground-source-heat-pumps

http://www.ecoheatpumps.co.uk/heat_pump_faq.htm

Can a system be placed in an old building?

A recent installation was a 300-year-old Roman Catholic Church in Lithuania where the outside temperature was -20°C and the internal temperature was 18°C. More engineering design is required on older and complex buildings than newly constructed buildings.

Back to meeeeeeee

Seems insulation is the key word in all this. Have you restrictions inside?

[RichL]

Im looking at a similar project myself.

Grade 2 listed is not too restrictive, afaik you'll need to put the right roof tiles back on, have the right windows (should be ok on a barn, cant see them insisting on sash windows for example), but generally not as bad as you might think. Although why is a barn grade 2 listed anyway? Usually just the farm house inst it??

Have you seen the well? There may be more than one. Where I grew up there was one right out side the back door and another in the front field "somewhere", covered with sleepers. We never did find it. Even if you know where it is it could be full of all sorts of ****.

Wind gen is a non starter. £15k for something worth while. Even them atm you get bottom price for any surplus you sell to the grid, although last I heard this may be changing.

Ground source heat is a supplement to oil/gas heating isn't it? I saw grand designs (the castle one) and he was getting about 30% of his heating needs from it.

Are you having an open fire? You should definitely get an Arga - I have shares in them

Insulate and insulate again! It sounds fascinating, keep us posted.

[james.wilson]

Im looking at a similar project myself.

Grade 2 listed is not too restrictive, afaik you'll need to put the right roof tiles back on, have the right windows (should be ok on a barn, cant see them insisting on sash windows for example), but generally not as bad as you might think. Although why is a barn grade 2 listed anyway? Usually just the farm house inst it??

its an old cider press and hop type building, the gear is all still in there last used nearly 80 years ago. im told its G2 listed, it may not be (i hope it isnt)

Have you seen the well? There may be more than one. Where I grew up there was one right out side the back door and another in the front field "somewhere", covered with sleepers. We never did find it. Even if you know where it is it could be full of all sorts of ****.

yes there was a guy living in it 30 odd years ago (well a bit of it) and the water source was the well. I powered up the pump on an extension (still worked!) and it looked ok ie clear

Wind gen is a non starter. £15k for something worth while. Even them atm you get bottom price for any surplus you sell to the grid, although last I heard this may be changing.

i beleive it has, but im not looking at selling it back just running my stuff of it.

Ground source heat is a supplement to oil/gas heating isn't it? I saw grand designs (the castle one) and he was getting about 30% of his heating needs from it.

old man has an air source one that does everything. Im not planning on supplementing it with anything. If you get a big enough one then it will do it all on its own. What i do know is the hotter it runs the less efficent it is, anything above 45 degress drops the efficency. co2 based units can achive 65 degress, but as i plan to have underfloor heating throughout i dont need this much heat.... apart from water. Im unsure what to do for hot water.

Are you having an open fire? You should definitely get an Arga - I have shares in them

log burner in the lounge i reakon, but missus dont want an arga and im leaving the kitchen totally up to her. Id quite like one, the house would take it (ie look right) but it would need to be oil or lpg fed. She would rather have a gas range, so ill have an underground lpg tank for this and only this. Id rather from a money point of view not have one. But it would solve the water issue (or is it rayburns that do hot water?)

Insulate and insulate again! It sounds fascinating, keep us posted.

yeah ive been looking at the german passivhaus standard but that calls ofr 300mm of insulation. As i only have alimited width i dont want to have an internal thermalite wall with a 300mm insulation layer plus an air gap. Again i have to look into this more, but im thinking the existing 12" wall will have some thermal properties. IM hoping to either dry line and insualate with air gap or use a block wall with a smaller insulation layer + air gap.

It is interesting but im concerned ive started a journey that will eat more money than i can provide!

[digitalwitness]

Agree with Oxo, no matter how efficient your heating method if its lost quickly through the walls, roof and windows quickly.

Looked into myself a few years back and it gets complicated quickly, already you may need to be thinking of what type of floors you will put down. Let me explain, traditional heating systems are inefficient because they heat water to say 80 degrees but nothing really uses this temperature water, not showers, not radiators, etc so the water is heated only to be cooled down again. But back to the floor type, the most efficient combination would be heat pump, solar panel and underfloor heating (wet type) underfloor heating runs at no more than 50 degrees but not really suitable for wooden floors as wood is an insulator(got to the point eventually), you can get special floors but that will cost you.

Thats just one example. Others would be positive air pressure, humidity (both too much and too little), it goes on.

IMO your own well will offer many more options, i.e. pressure fed system so all showers would be like power showers, etc.

Best of luck with it!

[MrHappy]

i beleive it has, but im not looking at selling it back just running my stuff of it.

I thought the money saving was in the micro gen grant thingy ?