Guest Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 No the manufacturer of the alarm is the manufacturer of the component parts - the installer designs the sytem according to the customers/insurers requirements but if the contract/maintenance is removed the customer is free to do what he wants with the system. My car's ecu is made by bosch.... your point is???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rjbsec Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 My car's ecu is made by bosch.... your point is???? I have no points to make about your car - it's irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky83 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I agree with RJB security! I think its wrong Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellman Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Please tell me that you don't actually believe that and you are only saying it to be controversial - It's his alarm system and there is no contract in existence for heavens sake, of course he has the right to alter it! Yes I do and I stand 100% behind it. What you say above is correct, but you are getting confused over 2 different things here. It is his alarm system, and he has every right to tamper with it if he so chooses. That dosn't mean the installer who sold him a *SYSTEM* only configured to accept the detectors supplied with it *HAS* to allow the customer to add extra ones to it. to illustrate this, if I sell a customer a 6 zone system and I set the 2 spare zones to 24h and lock the eng code in i have still sold him a 6 zone system irrespective of the panel having the capabiliy to use 8, he has bought and paid for 6. no more, no less. No the manufacturer of the alarm is the manufacturer of the component parts - the installer designs the sytem according to the customers/insurers requirements but if the contract/maintenance is removed the customer is free to do what he wants with the system. Absolute rubbish, if i buy lots of pc component parts and build a pc that i sell, the pc isn't suddenly manufactured by the people who make the parts, it's made by ME.... Same applies to alarms.. The customer is free to do what he wants with what he has purchased, if he has the technical nounce to convert the 6 zone system he purchased into an 8 zone system then all well and good. I have no issues with that, The issue was he automatically thought he should be able to have more than he paid for. That has nothing to do with the issue of whether or not the customer has the right to use his system in the way that he wishes to when there is no other party involved with the responsibility for the performance of the system. It has everything to do with it. I have in the past bought lower versions of some products at a cheaper price because I knew I could convert them to the higher range product, the only difference in many cases is a few programming changes. ergo I get more than I have paid for Customer could do this as well if he had the knowledge, which he hasn't, and that's why he's angry. He has no valid argument at all. I'm not saying he dosn't have the right to do whatever he wishes with his own equipment, but to throw his toys out of the pram and blame us for his own lack of skill I think is a bit unjust. Regards Bellman Service Engineer and all round nice bloke ) The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellman Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 To the original poster. As I have said above, Your system can be unlocked but the expense of doing so is more than the panel is worth. replace the pcb or upgrade it to a newer model. It'd be like me buying a Service Engineer and all round nice bloke ) The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova-Security Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 My car's ecu is made by bosch.... your point is???? My dishwasher is also made by Bosch, does this mean because i work on their panels iam approved to fix my dishwasher www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rjbsec Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Yes I do and I stand 100% behind it.What you say above is correct, but you are getting confused over 2 different things here. It is his alarm system, and he has every right to tamper with it if he so chooses. That dosn't mean the installer who sold him a *SYSTEM* only configured to accept the detectors supplied with it *HAS* to allow the customer to add extra ones to it. So what you are saying then is that the installer who sold him the system has every right to stop him making full use of the system which he bought, paid for and has no contractural obligations outstanding. to illustrate this, if I sell a customer a 6 zone system and I set the 2 spare zones to 24h and lock the eng code in i have still sold him a 6 zone system irrespective of the panel having the capabiliy to use 8, he has bought and paid for 6. no more, no less. No he has bought a system which you have configured for him to use, but not to its complete capability - he wants the ability to use it to the full and you are preventing him from doing so by locking the engineer code. Absolute rubbish, if i buy lots of pc component parts and build a pc that i sell, the pc isn't suddenly manufactured by the people who make the parts, it's made by ME....Same applies to alarms.. No it isn't - in either case you will NEVER be the manufacturer, you will be the designer and probably builder of the system. The customer is free to do what he wants with what he has purchased, if he has the technical nounce to convert the 6 zone system he purchased into an 8 zone system then all well and good. I have no issues with that, The issue was he automatically thought he should be able to have more than he paid for. Not so, the installer has deliberately put something in force designed to prevent him from converting or doing anything else to his system. He is not asking for more than he paid for, he desires to use what he paid for to the full by extending its existing capabilities, at his own expense and he should be free to do so. It has everything to do with it.I have in the past bought lower versions of some products at a cheaper price because I knew I could convert them to the higher range product, the only difference in many cases is a few programming changes. ergo I get more than I have paid for Customer could do this as well if he had the knowledge, which he hasn't, and that's why he's angry. He has no valid argument at all. He didn't buy something at a cheaper price to convert it - he now wants to extend its existing capabilities. It's not a question of knowledge, its a question of bad practice designed to tie the customer into the original installer. I'm not saying he dosn't have the right to do whatever he wishes with his own equipment, but to throw his toys out of the pram and blame us for his own lack of skill I think is a bit unjust. You are saying he doesn't have the right to do whatever he wants with his own equipment, you've been saying that all along! Neither is he blaming "us" he asked if we could defend it - the locked engineer code has nothing to do with his skill as a DIYer, (most skilled engineers couldn't unlock it), it has everything to do with a bad practice, a restrictive practice designed to prevent the customer fully utilizing his own alarm system either by himself or his chosen installer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 No it isn't - in either case you will NEVER be the manufacturer, you will be the designer and probably builder of the system.Now you are accepting that some of us don Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rjbsec Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Now you are accepting that some of us don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 if there would be a way for a customer to alter the panel programming themselves they would do it. ok, they messed it and they got intruded (premises and themselves). they and police would anyway suspect the installer of misprogramming of the apparatus and causing their intrusion. that's why when we sell *systems* we make clear that it is their system but if they want any responsibility from us they won't get anything else but set/unset codes. if they want master and /or installer(engineer) code we won't take any responsibilities about the systems. even if it would be faultly wired detector or upside down remote keypad. our customers of course will get the necessary codes if they want it ( we have a random master and random engineer code on every panel ) but since that moment on they get the possession of it any guarantees, responsibilities etc.. will be void. that ofcourse doesn't include any kind of service to rival installation companies calling to us and saying " we took over this and this system and we need engineer code for it". customer can ofcourse ask for it but in case they didn't pay for storing their contact person data and password they won't get it without an extra visit (which is worth of money anuway). so my spice is that it indeed is customers panel but on whose responsibility the functionality is??? on customers who asked for fully functional panel???!??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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