RH2021 Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Hi all I’ve just built a new home and installed alarm cable to the following areas: - motion sensors in room - internal bell - external siren - keypad x2 All cable is running back to a comms room on the ground floor. I’d also like window and door sensors which would have to be wireless so I’d need a hybrid system. Could you please advise which system would meet my requirements? Criteria as follows: - grade 2 system (all components) - smartphone app - integrated with IFTTT (or Samsung smart things) - is very reliable - has the ability to extend into my garage wirelessly which is about 10 metres away - ability to integrate hikvision cctv with events ie hikvision camera motion detection kicks off alarm - ability to integrate beam sensors I’ve heard that some systems have false alarms a lot so don’t want that. Anyhow, grateful for your help. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, RH2021 said: Hi all the only way your going to get a reliable graded system is have one installed & maintained by a properly accredited alarm co. I assume your IT ? eg - would you want a software man to do the wires & a wire man to do the software... Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Are you planning to do this yourself? It makes most of your list irrelevant if so. Your limiting your options if you want a system with an app that isn't fitted by an installation company. You wouldn't integrate alarms and cameras like that, any system that false alarms is obviously pointless and probably fitted incorrectly. Sounds like you think you know what you want but haven't considered how it "should" be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Agreed with above, most of the pro stuff wont work with ifttt. Reliable = professionally maintained Smartphone App = All the decent ones you need a cloud contract only available through an installer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 47 minutes ago, PeterJames said: most of the pro stuff wont work with ifttt. I'd never heard of it until this thread started, google says "nest" lol Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, MrHappy said: I'd never heard of it until this thread started, google says "nest" lol if this then that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH2021 Posted November 16, 2021 Author Share Posted November 16, 2021 Hi Folks Thanks for the feedback. I seemed to have provoked a reaction and assumptions that I have decided to install the system myself. That is not the case. If I went into a car showroom to buy a car I will list the things I want. I’m pretty sure the sales man would t expect me to build it. Joking aside my bad for not explicitly saying that I’m not going to install it. I’m at the research stage. Some questions I have: 1) Is wired better / more secure than wireless? 2) What are the benefits of a traditional system over a smart / DIY system such as boundary? My research to date is pointing me to the criteria I’ve listed above but what I have also found, in my opinion, is that there is still a gap between traditional systems and smart systems. For example it seems traditional systems don’t support smart hubs/IFTTT etc. Anyhow, I’d appreciate feedback to help me form an opinion on what I need to move forward. Note, I may also speak face to face with a number of installers to get a general consensus on what will meet my needs but I’d prefer not to at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 We get people asking allsorts of wacky things here, some are DIYers some are not. If you are getting an installer in then kit manufacturer selection will be down to them, they should have staff trained on products they fit to provide the best support. Wired will always be better IMO but I see no issue in hybrid for your purpose, radio kit will need battery replacements and could in theory be jammed. Top end kit should detect this. There is a gap but I consider it important to be partitioned away personally, security is all about layers and one software exploit that could get past every layer is not smart. It's a topic the industry as a whole is still trying to provide a solution with lots of opinions. Consumers want functionality but manufacturers, installers and insurers would have concerns with liability if a system failed to operate. Usually getting quotes from 3 places is recommended. Generally you wouldn't choose solely on price but during this you will find a company you feel the most comfortable with providing your requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 The bigger problem with HA and integration is the security side. IFTTT is great but what testing is done to ensure the system is secure. Also its totally cloud dependent. Without it the automation's wont work. Im a big fan of HA and use home assistant to control all my automation's. None are cloud dependant (apart from alexa commands as I currently have no choice) but heating, security, lighing etc is all local. If interfaced my HKC hybrid system to my HA instance using ESP32. This is a 1 way (by design) communication. My HA instance has no possible control of the security in any way. I use my alarm as 'presence' detection, ie its the only bit of kit in the house that knows when everyone is out, in bed or in. Triggers for full set will put the house into eco mode, turn off all devices that can be lower the temps of the rooms etc. I also use the movement detectors to alter comfort heating temps of the bedrooms based on if they are used in the last 24 hours. But only approved HKC products can arm or disarm my system, so keypads, keyfobs or apps. There is no way any HA part can be compromised that could unset my system. I also use dualpath coms for the app so when i lose internet connectivity it use a monitored gsm. A lot of the diy / smart systems require the cloud to operate. 'If' power was cut or lines cut etc these systems become inoperative until connectivity is restored. Completely useless IMHO Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 3 hours ago, RH2021 said: If I went into a car showroom to buy a car I will list the things I want. I’m pretty sure the sales man would t expect me to build it. Your asking for bespoke mix of products, eg - car with a bike engine, it might do 0-100 in 4 seconds, but it won't have tow bar as well 3 hours ago, RH2021 said: 1) Is wired better / more secure than wireless? 2) What are the benefits of a traditional system over a smart / DIY system such as boundary? My research to date is pointing me to the criteria I’ve listed above but what I have also found, in my opinion, is that there is still a gap between traditional systems and smart systems. For example it seems traditional systems don’t support smart hubs/IFTTT etc. Anyhow, I’d appreciate feedback to help me form an opinion on what I need to move forward. Note, I may also speak face to face with a number of installers to get a general consensus on what will meet my needs but I’d prefer not to at this stage. 1.) if you are building the house wire everything & any door / window you choose to alarm can has a concealed contact, the added benefit unless it bus device just about any wired items will work with just about any wired control panel 2.) boundary alarm ? like Yale or Harry Moss or alarm the product has no approval, when sold by high street retailers the store has proper alarm despite having a shelf full of a alarms for sale. IFTTT ? still don't care... Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 4 hours ago, RH2021 said: . Note, I may also speak face to face with a number of installers to get a general consensus on what will meet my needs but I’d prefer not to at this stage. As you are in NI, HKC would be my first choice (that said HKC would be my first choice anyway) I am also a big fan of HA, though I am a bit different from James. I have experimented with using Alexa for arming disarming, I have also used outputs on the alarm to trigger routines, such as courtesy lights on entry exit, or switch off all lights when set. An alarm panel is basically an input output module you are limited as to what you can make the inputs do, send alarm notifications, trigger outputs. The outputs on the panel are also limited especially when disarmed, but there are a few things you can do, access control, switch on lights, the app even has time schedules that can be set and overridden via the app. In reality it is possible to make it do whatever you want, but not everyone has the patients or the time to work out how to make it do what you want it to do. Thats the reason my teleporting system hasnt ever got finished, well that and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle LOL. HKC is also Hybrid and so you can use wireless and hard wired, the devices are two way wireless and quite secure. I would recommend hardwired devices everytime over wireless as you dont have the additional cost of batteries but having a back-up of wireless is really handy especially if you want to add window contacts somewhere, or you have a outbuilding that you want to include. It doesnt work with ITTT but you can interface inputs with outputs that do Your problem will be finding a company willing to work with you on it, many co's are uncomfortable stepping out of the traditional burglar alarm stuff, but with good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH2021 Posted November 17, 2021 Author Share Posted November 17, 2021 5 hours ago, PeterJames said: As you are in NI, HKC would be my first choice (that said HKC would be my first choice anyway) I am also a big fan of HA, though I am a bit different from James. I have experimented with using Alexa for arming disarming, I have also used outputs on the alarm to trigger routines, such as courtesy lights on entry exit, or switch off all lights when set. An alarm panel is basically an input output module you are limited as to what you can make the inputs do, send alarm notifications, trigger outputs. The outputs on the panel are also limited especially when disarmed, but there are a few things you can do, access control, switch on lights, the app even has time schedules that can be set and overridden via the app. In reality it is possible to make it do whatever you want, but not everyone has the patients or the time to work out how to make it do what you want it to do. Thats the reason my teleporting system hasnt ever got finished, well that and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle LOL. HKC is also Hybrid and so you can use wireless and hard wired, the devices are two way wireless and quite secure. I would recommend hardwired devices everytime over wireless as you dont have the additional cost of batteries but having a back-up of wireless is really handy especially if you want to add window contacts somewhere, or you have a outbuilding that you want to include. It doesnt work with ITTT but you can interface inputs with outputs that do Your problem will be finding a company willing to work with you on it, many co's are uncomfortable stepping out of the traditional burglar alarm stuff, but with good reason. Thanks for the detailed response Peter. I was looking at Texecom and Veritas as well as Boundary. More research required I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Texecom Premier is the bigger panel these will work with Elan, though the customers we have with Premiers connected to their Elan HA never use the HA for anything on their alarm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalaxyGuy Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 11 hours ago, RH2021 said: Thanks for the detailed response Peter. I was looking at Texecom and Veritas as well as Boundary. More research required I think. Take a look at the Honeywell Dimension and Flex too. We have a few hundred customers integrating their systems with the SelfMon vmod. The vmod is a virtualisation module that also provides MQTT connectivity to gain control and status of the panels. It's about moving the complex logic into the HA system and away from the vendor lock-in of the control panel firmware, while keeping the robust 24x7 security of the panel. I would definitely recommend using MQTT as your main HA protocol going forwards, as it's open and really easy to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 18 hours ago, RH2021 said: Veritas as well as Boundary. You need a bit of Logic 4 other wise a salesman with a bit of Karmiza, might want to charge you the earth or the whole Galaxy, getting a bill which would need an Abacus to add up ? I not sure how you'd get the Optima from your budget, but if you lucky you might be under budget & have a few left over for a Mosaic ? 1 Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Lol Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 46 minutes ago, MrHappy said: You need a bit of Logic 4 other wise a salesman with a bit of Karmiza, might want to charge you the earth or the whole Galaxy, getting a bill which would need an Abacus to add up ? I not sure how you'd get the Optima from your budget, but if you lucky you might be under budget & have a few left over for a Mosaic ? very good OP the veritas is a very budget system Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 hour ago, MrHappy said: You need a bit of Logic 4 other wise a salesman with a bit of Karmiza, might want to charge you the earth or the whole Galaxy, getting a bill which would need an Abacus to add up ? I not sure how you'd get the Optima from your budget, but if you lucky you might be under budget & have a few left over for a Mosaic ? Sterling 10 job there the Ultimate Symphony of panels 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 hours ago, MrHappy said: You need a bit of Logic 4 other wise a salesman with a bit of Karmiza, might want to charge you the earth or the whole Galaxy, getting a bill which would need an Abacus to add up ? I not sure how you'd get the Optima from your budget, but if you lucky you might be under budget & have a few left over for a Mosaic ? Bit of a Paragon there Dave you could have accenta bill in for that my little rascal countess, from windsor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 hour ago, PeterJames said: Bit of a Paragon there Dave you could have accenta bill in for that my little rascal countess, from windsor If logan was still in Communication all this panel talk would bring him to a DA Climax ? 1 Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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