Jump to content
Security Installer Community
RAMBO

Just Setting Up..

Recommended Posts

Hi guys, i'm hoping to start trading soon but i'm just trying to get everything in order at the moment and work out which trade associations & professional bodies I should really be aiming to be associated with?.

(I primarily do Access Control, CCTV, Intruder, Entry Systems at the moment).

1, which of these are most important for someone thats just starting out; I keep reading conflicting information.

-The British Security Industry Association (BSIA)

-National Security Inspectorate (NSI)

-Security Systems and Alarms Inspection Board (SSAIB)

-Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET)

2, If you already associated with one of the bodies above, can you let me know what exactly you needed to do, including any associated costs involved.

3, I've got some security related awards, a integrated security systems diploma and a few other useful qualifications, but what I can't call myself is an electrician. I did start to do the course years ago but I jumped ship when I was offered a job with money that i couldn't refuse, so I left it

Anyway; I've been trying to work out what the new city & guilds qualification is that I need to get to install and sign off my own work without having to keep on using other sparks to do the work for me; all the course numbers have all changed since I last entertained the idea. Have any of you guys got any ideas what i should go for. (For Commercial & Domestic Purposes)

I want to also do home automation systems too at some point, I believe the electricians course would be useful with that among other obvious things.

I'm totally open to suggestions, hints, ideas ... on anything thats going to help..

Thanks..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you really need to ask about inspectorates you shouldnt be setting up just yet

What experience do you already have?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the BSIA require ISO,

NSI / SSAIB rquire a min of 6 months trading & X jobs which met with the correct std

IET, I've no idea what benefits they could bring to a security installer


busy twisting coloured wires & hanging off ladders....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If want to issue certs for the electrical side you will need NICEIC as well as the others you listed.

SSAIB is the (will i get away with slightly) easier route to approval for security systems. Plus they wont insist you issue certs on cctv etc unlike NSI

BSIA is a trade association that offers guidance etc and is the liason between the industry and govt / regulations etc. ie BSIA have a heavy membership of BSI. If you have an issue with something the BSIA is the association to contact.

IET as Mr H


securitywarehouse https://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk

Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you really need to ask about inspectorates you shouldnt be setting up just yet

Why do you say that then?

What experience do you already have?

I've got a little bit of experience. I've been working for large facility company for over 10 years as a fire and security service engineer and manager. I’ve worked with video equipment, software and manufacturers like Axis, Ultrak / Honeywell, Indigo Vision, Milestone and Verint; I've actually been a beta tester for Verint too on there Nextiva Enterprise platform with the guys in Weybridge and in Montreal Canada. I’ve installed, maintained, upgraded multiple video systems from old analogue through to fairly high end IP video systems, leasing fibre lines, deploying wi-fi grids and integrating fairly large deployments of access control systems from companies like Gallagher (Cardax NT/FT) systems, Paxton, Fire systems, BMS systems, PA systems and other emergency procedure systems in fairly well known places throughout the country, in prisons and courts, through to places like the national grid and military sites.

I’ve also worked as a unqualified electrical contractor for years at one point, prior to leaving my course like a fool. I’ve worked diagnostics in telephone and CATV exchanges for NTL, I’ve worked in I.T as a network administrator, done intruder, intercoms and numerous other bits and pieces...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the BSIA require ISO,

NSI / SSAIB rquire a min of 6 months trading & X jobs which met with the correct std

IET, I've no idea what benefits they could bring to a security installer

Thank you Mr Happy, thats exactly the kind of input I was looking for and 'benefits' being the key word lol :thumbsup:

If want to issue certs for the electrical side you will need NICEIC as well as the others you listed.

SSAIB is the (will i get away with slightly) easier route to approval for security systems. Plus they wont insist you issue certs on cctv etc unlike NSI

BSIA is a trade association that offers guidance etc and is the liason between the industry and govt / regulations etc. ie BSIA have a heavy membership of BSI. If you have an issue with something the BSIA is the association to contact.

IET as Mr H

Thank you as well James, I appreciate your input too. I guess the SSAIB will probably be the one i'm going to go for to begin with. A side from the 6 months trading & X amount of jobs required to meet there standards are their any costs involved?

I've been doing private work here and there in between my current employment, I've only recently registered a limited company afterwoods so I dont suppose I would be allowed to add them in to my registered company profile as they fell outside the time stamps, plus I wouldnt know whether they had fallen short of the SSAIB's requirements without ever having that paper work... Bummer..

Has anyone got any links to the SSAIB's standards / requirements or will I just have to contact them on their website and request them?

Thanks again gents.

Edited by RAMBO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do you say that then?

Anyone that has been in this industry long enough to want to start up on their own already know exactly which inspectorate, and have a good idea of the requirements needed. I knew all the options before I made any decisions as to which way I was going. I know that's why your asking here, but I knew because I had been working in the industry and it was my job to know. With respect to all the very many experienced people on here they cannot tell you a magic code that will give you everything you need to know to make a success, whereas experience will.

I wouldnt recomend anyone starting up on their own without at least five years experience of working for an approved co

Your original post sounded a bit like: "I've never installed a alarm but I've seen a picture of one once, so I'm gonna start up my own company what do I need" In otherwords you are asking basic questions and If you have to ask basic questions then you are not ready, hence my questioning your experience

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If want to issue certs for the electrical side you will need NICEIC as well as the others you listed.

James thats the second time ive read that on here. Im NICEIC and i NEVER issue their cert preffering my own.

There is no requirement to issue a trade association certificate. Installation certificates are freely available to anyone approved or not.


Customers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone that has been in this industry long enough to want to start up on their own already know exactly which inspectorate, and have a good idea of the requirements needed. I knew all the options before I made any decisions as to which way I was going. I know that's why your asking here, but I knew because I had been working in the industry and it was my job to know. With respect to all the very many experienced people on here they cannot tell you a magic code that will give you everything you need to know to make a success, whereas experience will.

I wouldnt recomend anyone starting up on their own without at least five years experience of working for an approved co

Your original post sounded a bit like: "I've never installed a alarm but I've seen a picture of one once, so I'm gonna start up my own company what do I need" In otherwords you are asking basic questions and If you have to ask basic questions then you are not ready, hence my questioning your experience

I suppose that's down to personal opinion really.

I did also mention in my initial post that I've done my integrated security systems diploma among other bits; exams and training which all included British and European standards and covered all the inspectorate's that I mentioned, which Is why I knew to ask about them in the first place, you should know that. The main reason I asked was primarily because its been a while since I took them, I've got a short memory, plus I keep reading conflicting comments about which ones are better to have in posts found on this forum. Its not like I haven't been working to standard for years working for an international facilities company.

Also I prefer the novice approach over the know it all, that's how you learn things. :thumbsup:

I wouldnt recomend anyone starting up on their own without at least five years experience of working for an approved co

That's a bit of a random number, especially when you consider the fact that some people learn allot quicker and gain allot more experience and knowledge than others in lesser time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

James thats the second time ive read that on here. Im NICEIC and i NEVER issue their cert preffering my own.

There is no requirement to issue a trade association certificate. Installation certificates are freely available to anyone approved or not.

Hi jb-eye, did you do your C&G 2330 Part I/II or C&G 236 to become a spark. I see they have a C&G 2357 now, which covers renewable technology training; i'm guessing thats the one to do now.. Any ideas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not how quickly you learn its what happens in that space of time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi jb-eye, did you do your C&G 2330 Part I/II or C&G 236 to become a spark. I see they have a C&G 2357 now, which covers renewable technology training; i'm guessing thats the one to do now.. Any ideas?

Résumé:

Birth Certificate

Cycling proficiency

Length certificate

Driving Test

Marriage certificate

Fully competent and much experience in many other aspects.

Fully graduated with honours University of life


Customers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I employ 2 guys - I never asked what qualifications they have during recruitment as it's irrelevant. If they wanted to waste their time and money thats up to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Résumé:

Birth Certificate

Cycling proficiency

Length certificate

Driving Test

Marriage certificate

Fully competent and much experience in many other aspects.

Fully graduated with honours University of life

I heard that them Marriage certifications cost allot to maintain and can totally bankrupt you if you don't follow the rules properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I employ 2 guys - I never asked what qualifications they have during recruitment as it's irrelevant. If they wanted to waste their time and money thats up to them.

I agree with that to a certain extent, depending on the type of customer that your business is bidding to work with and depending on whether the company owner is inspecting there employees work ensuring that it meets requirements and standards. In 'my opinion' if the owner is fully qualified or employs qualified competent people through the company to fill in where he's not then that's totally fine, but if you're unqualified with no accreditation throughout your business, try bidding against organisations with experience and accreditations on big contracts like airports, national grid certain government sites, ports etc. where you can win some good projects and see how that pans out for you.

If I'm honest I was reluctant to do some of the courses that I've done in the past, parting with thousands of pounds of my own money in the process. I merely did them for the paper work, not because i really really really wanted too, but every little helps you know; like with these inspectorates and having them associated with your business, whether I agree or disagree with them, the truth of the matter is that they are an advantage to you and your business in this day and age.

Also, for me its not just the hands on ability to do the physical work to make a business succeed, some times it also takes the combination of brains too, for example.. some of the people I’ve managed and employed through former companies were excellent at pulling cables, installing conduit and physical stuff, but I couldn't always rely on them types of people to sit in on meetings and to meet and greet clients and keep their paper work in order; where as your more likely to get that in someone that's been quiet assertive in building their own qualifications, profile, as well as experience.

So I probably would employ someone with qualifications & experience over someone with just experience If I have a choice, but thats just me...

Edited by RAMBO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

rambo,

I see where you are coming from and don't take some of the comments to heart I was grilled just the same but I understand the reasons behind the grilling. (no offence guys, but I am glad you treat these questions with these answers!)

It is all to easy for anyone to start a business and say they can install CCTV & alarms but is the installation being done right your, your customer won't have a clue if it is or not they are putting trust in you to make sure the job is done right. Look how many electricians are out there doing it and the jobs I have been too where it has been the case it is easier to rip out and start again.

I am not trade registered with NSI or SSAIB at the moment started to go through the paper work for SSAIB but have decided to buddy up with another guy that is SSAIB in my area that is the same size as me (family business) and we now both share our work loads between us. I have learnt loads and loads from him over the past months for the first few jobs he would check my work but now he knows I know what I am doing. On the job training is the best way I learn, I have the standards and have read through them and have worked for other companies before starting on my own.

If you think you have what it takes go for it, but one thing I have learned is it is a tough business, all security businesses are the same there is nothing new I don't think anyone can say makes them different from the rest and it is not as if the wheel needs reinventing.

If you can get some good customers that will recommend you and build on this you are half way to winning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I employ 2 guys - I never asked what qualifications they have during recruitment as it's irrelevant. If they wanted to waste their time and money thats up to them.

I will QUALIFY my earlier statement.

We are full scope NICEIC for 34 years. We are NACOSS NSI GOLD. We are ISO 9002 and were formally BS5750.

We have undertaken most of the projects described.

Qualifications get you to the interview stage, you cant hack the job your out.

Personnel knowledge of experience wins over qualification.

Having left school at 15 with zero qualifications (the world will always need drivers and manual workers) i ensured my own children had the benefit of a good education and all four have the benefit of a university education. Do i believe their education will ensure their future?


Customers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I joined the army straight from school with minimal qualifications. My attitude to life in general (which is what I learnt from my service) is what has got me to where I am today (but I'm no where near where I want to be), not any qualifications I may have picked up along the way.

As long as you have a good solid base to start with then ongoing training (on the job) will lead to experience and this is far more valuable than anything you will learn in a classroom. Don't get me wrong - courses have their place and are a vital part of progression (the army is built around attending courses but only after completing minimum amounts of time based experience) but fundamentally it's having the right attitude in the first place.

All of this is obivously my opinon only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

** Posted as a complement **

Do i believe their education will ensure their future?

I would assume an average degree in an average profession would provide a better career than a role at your co.


busy twisting coloured wires & hanging off ladders....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do i believe their education will ensure their future?

I hope to god I can pay for my kids to go to uni and leave with great degrees and no debt. I am fairly sure they are the reason I go to work in this crappy industry in which I find myself in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope to god I can pay for my kids to go to uni and leave with great degrees and no debt. I am fairly sure they are the reason I go to work in this crappy industry in which I find myself in.

I would agree with the first bit, I do it for my kids too. But I dont think this industry is quite as crappy as we all think. I doubt I will ever become a millionaire from it but unless someone invents a paint that stops burglars I shall stay far better off than quite a few

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I moan about this industry at times but I am better off and further along than anyone I went to school with. That will even out I'm sure but I have no debt and don't do to bad all in all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm +1 on the crappy industry,

I could easily chuck it & fit sky, telephones or just work in tesco. Won't pay any better but I assume way less hassle


busy twisting coloured wires & hanging off ladders....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm +1 on the crappy industry,

I could easily chuck it & fit sky, telephones or just work in tesco. Won't pay any better but I assume way less hassle

I wouldnt be doing this if that was the case for me, but then again I havent got co's round this way selling their gear on Ebay either

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont think its crappy but it has changed. Its changed beyond recognition imo and sadly quality is no longer the mass market. I can only spek for ourselves where we dropped the numbers game many years ago and went down a different route. We do offer something different imo. But we also went down another route and offered a mass market option. Change/evolve/redesign your offering or die imo. Just when you think you know which direction your current market is going you respond. all in my humble opinion of course


securitywarehouse https://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk

Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.