arfur mo Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 spot on there arfur totally agree coax for video, alarm cable for 12vdc supplies or 2 core flat flex for speed domes 24vac and beldon and alarm cable for data and alarm signals from domes and pir's agreed, thats how i do them simply for the least likelihood of future hassle. i have had issues with CAT5e and signal degradation ended up fitting launch boosters at extra lost costs, so i'm not a real fan of it and treat it as an avoidable option. most engineers can handle the standard wiring formats, many can't handle CAT5e terminations or fault finding and seem to treat it like some sort of mysterious 'black magic'. so sticking with conventional wiring means if i have to have a job covered by another company due to holidays, i can send almost any engineer i know and with a good chance of a right result, but most don't carry CAT5e test kit which limits their ability in this severely so add's to their time and my costs for any faults. another issue concerns me with CAT5e, if running 4 camera's off a single cable, this means that cable gets damaged you loose 4 camera's, or you have to stop all camera's from working while investigating a cable issue with one of them. with coax it is likely to be only one camera out action (with local supplies) and you don't need to knock others out to test cables, client don't like losing 4 camera's for a fault on one so you can bet the heat will be high to fix it quick. so imo nothing 'legally' wrong using CAT5e, just consider all the pro's and con's properly and not just your expected margins is my advice, or you could come a cropper. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 if you have installed larger sites before using CAT5e then your own experience willout.for me i'm not so keen to have so many egg's in one basket, so i'd also run in coax's in with the other cables for what it cost's as i'm assuming access is a bitch needing scissor lifts etc. but then i'm just a very cautious and fussy old git, so i like a 'fall back' strategy in place. i simply don't care if it cuts into my immediate profits, as the ongoing recommends for a stable system will pay for it imo, where as the 'savings' may well damage my rep and so cost me far more. regs alan I fully respect what you are saying and see where your coming from. Don't get me wrong I am still not 100% sure about this method myself. If I don't start going down these lines someone else will. If I get good results. Then great. In this case at worst I could still use my cat5 for the RS485 and alarm pair to DVR as this unit will look for 1k ohm resistance. So it would be a case of running a coax to each point. If I'm not happy with the first couple of cameras, then it's coax aswell. Regards Justin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satsuma01 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 agreed, thats how i do them simply for the least likelihood of future hassle. i have had issues with CAT5e and signal degradation ended up fitting launch boosters at extra lost costs, so i'm not a real fan of it and treat it as an avoidable option.most engineers can handle the standard wiring formats, many can't handle CAT5e terminations or fault finding and seem to treat it like some sort of mysterious 'black magic'. so sticking with conventional wiring means if i have to have a job covered by another company due to holidays, i can send almost any engineer i know and with a good chance of a right result, but most don't carry CAT5e test kit which limits their ability in this severely so add's to their time and my costs for any faults. another issue concerns me with CAT5e, if running 4 camera's off a single cable, this means that cable gets damaged you loose 4 camera's, or you have to stop all camera's from working while investigating a cable issue with one of them. with coax it is likely to be only one camera out action (with local supplies) and you don't need to knock others out to test cables, client don't like losing 4 camera's for a fault on one so you can bet the heat will be high to fix it quick. so imo nothing 'legally' wrong using CAT5e, just consider all the pro's and con's properly and not just your expected margins is my advice, or you could come a cropper. regs alan well said arfur, "If you carry your childhood with you, you never become old. Why rush to end life when happiness is in the blissfulness of childhood innocence.""We all die, the goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will." 07475071344 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistle Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 well said arfur, You lot dont half talk some **** on here. Customes dont like any cameras down. But if its vermin in roof a roof space its realy not your problem. Also Cables should not be clipped external at low level. Reading the posts here you can easy see who is approved and following BS and those who do what ever they want and think its ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satsuma01 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 You lot dont half talk some **** on here.Customes dont like any cameras down. But if its vermin in roof a roof space its realy not your problem. Also Cables should not be clipped external at low level. Reading the posts here you can easy see who is approved and following BS and those who do what ever they want and think its ok. where did i say I CLIPPED CABELS AT LOW LEVEL i DIDNT, what i said is if THE Engineerinstallaing decides to do that then both the customer and the engineer are at fault with respect to vermin chewing through low level cables, BUT what i do is always conduit or trunking where i need to..... and i dont clip at low level externally only in conduit or copex etc.... "If you carry your childhood with you, you never become old. Why rush to end life when happiness is in the blissfulness of childhood innocence.""We all die, the goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will." 07475071344 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 You lot dont half talk some **** on here.Customes dont like any cameras down. But if its vermin in roof a roof space its realy not your problem. Also Cables should not be clipped external at low level. Reading the posts here you can easy see who is approved and following BS and those who do what ever they want and think its ok. i can't agree with you Whistle, so you install a system in say in a fish gutting plant, is it the clients fault if it won't work at low temperatures or suffers damp ingress? of course not. you, as the 'expert' have to design and install your system to be robust against common failure causes within the enviorment fitted, so defended against common rodents. but then i was mentioning ceiling voids or ducts, and i agree with you about low level clipping (not seen BT/Sky run their cables then have we?), but personally i'd use tube or maybe trunking depending on the assessed mechanical or attack risk. even if cables were clipped low level, RG59 would better survive accidental damage than CAT5e, and we are deiscussing the pro's and con's of each type. i ask why do you assume i or other of your professional peers do not observe good practice's or standards? or was it simply a bluster to cover the fact you have not posted real repost to reasoned well grounded debate? regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alterEGO Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Never with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barooga Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 I see the secret editor is at it again. Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satsuma01 Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 I see the secret editor is at it again. ?????? "If you carry your childhood with you, you never become old. Why rush to end life when happiness is in the blissfulness of childhood innocence.""We all die, the goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will." 07475071344 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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