amateurandy Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 okay - hypotheticaly how did you comply with the requirments of Part P when you did your system? I didn't. It didn't apply at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barooga Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 OK, Said DIY'er fits one of these Nothing wrong?? Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I didn't. It didn't apply at the time. okay how did you comply with the requirment to install yours " safely...." and er - that did apply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 two things one - there is no such thing as safety extra low voltage, its SEPERATED and Part P still applies two - you`ve totally misunderstood the requirments of Part P of the building regs - same problem Arfur has had so this is for you both Part P is the standard for electrical installation in dwellings (nothing to do with the tax man`s classification of our trade) and can be summed up simply as " all work MUST be safe....!" within this is the need to prove your work is safe by showing conformance to reccomended working practises. in the case of an alarm EN/PD662 or in the case of a hot tub BS7671, there is no restriction on who does the work as long as it complies and can be proven to be safe Now the bit that confuse`s everybody Certain "jobs" have an exemption from the requirment for the work to be inspected and tested by the BCO, thats all it is - an exemption from testing and veryfying by a third party, not an exemption from having to comply with Part P it really is that simple Andy etc - you need to show you have done the job safely - that is why a DIY`er needs to comply Hi Angus, i think you misunderstand, the taxman reference was to demonstrate the interpretation, we are not as alarm companies part of the construction industry, so got to say i'm not convinced by your argument, i don't see that PD covers safe electrical practice's in it's own right, i don't have a copy but going by what i remmember of BS 4737 and the bits i've picked up, it only refers to good practic based on electrical trade practice's, like fixing cables at set distances and so on. if what you suggest holds true, to be an alarm installer legally non endebtured electrician trained people would all have to go to college to serve a 4 year electrical apprenticeship, just to prove their full knowledge of the 16th an 17th editions inorder to fully comply with them, or simply not get any PL insurance cover, i think there would be no alternative. could be said by not insisting on this, blows away any enforcements implied or authority of EN, PD even good old BS.4737. EN/PD's main objective is to standardise alarm practices across the EU, it also seeks to set a benchmark for a minimum standard of performance for grades of security required of alarm systems. as traders we have to know not to run cables in external wall cavities as that could be a path for damp for instance, but that has nothing to do with electrical regs. if i were to tack a cable across a door way above the carpet, public liability would be in play for any injuries caused by my incompetence or stupidity. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateurandy Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 okay how did you comply with the requirment to install yours " safely...."and er - that did apply Show me the relevant law please and I'll answer. (I turned off the mains, removed the fuses, checked the circuits with a multimeter and wore wellingtons and rubber gloves while doing the wiring?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 arf - just for once you prove yourself out of your depth Hi Angus, i think you misunderstand, the taxman reference was to demonstrate the interpretation, we are not as alarm companies part of the construction industry, so what, no one said we were - or are you saying we dont have to comply because were also diy`ers (in which case your toatlly missing the point and theres no help for you) so got to say i'm not convinced by your argument, i don't see that PD covers safe electrical practice's in it's own right, i don't have a copy but going by what i remmember of BS 4737 and the bits i've picked up, it only refers to good practic based on electrical trade practice's, like fixing cables at set distances and so on. so what, I never said it did - you reference EN/PD to show you comply with the req. of part P if what you suggest holds true, to be an alarm installer legally non endebtured electrician trained people would all have to go to college to serve a 4 year electrical apprenticeship, just to prove their full knowledge of the 16th an 17th editions inorder to fully comply with them, or simply not get any PL insurance cover, i think there would be no alternative. could be said by not insisting on this, blows away any enforcements implied or authority of EN, PD even good old BS.4737. you know what for once your right - you should hold the correct C&G in installation and testing if your a pro and if you don`t then it would be easy for the insurance to prove negligance and not pay out ( guess what ? you dont get your premiums back) EN/PD's main objective is to standardise alarm practices across the EU, it also seeks to set a benchmark for a minimum standard of performance for grades of security required of alarm systems. as traders we have to know not to run cables in external wall cavities as that could be a path for damp for instance, but that has nothing to do with electrical regs. that example has everything to do with wiring regs ( its wiring regs for goodness sakes that prohibit that kind of thing) nothing to do with EN/PD - you bought your copy yet ? and read it ? if i were to tack a cable across a door way above the carpet, public liability would be in play for any injuries caused by my incompetence or stupidity. why is that any different to not complying with building regs then ? regsalan Arf - your clouding the issue by trying to show off, by your own admision your little more than a diy`er these days, your out of date with the wiring regs ( alarm and "electrics.....") and it seems to me that many more so called trade members on this site NEED alarms not to be compliant so you can pass your own work off as DIY in a missguided attempt to bypass the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Show me the relevant law please and I'll answer. when you did yours there wasnt one now there is, its called part p of the building regs and you`ve got the pdf on your machine - people can stick there heads in the sand all they want but its still there when they come back up for air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Why is he incorrect Arfur?They apply to 'all'. They do not allow for anyone to decide they don't apply because they didn't think they meant our industry/products. I agree with the sentiment though. However, just because we use 12V, does not necessarily mean the install is safe though does it.? Who's to say the PSU on this theoretical DIY tat is safe? Unlikely, but possible, the PSU (no CE/UL etc approval) fails in a manner that introduces mains voltage on the 12v line? hi barooga, in a way 'he' (angus) is incorrect by default, because as yet there is no cast iron wording (imo) referred to by some authoritative body which clamps down on the alarm trade or the diy'er, and states 'we' must install to the same designs and rigors as qualified electricians do, although fully appreciating many things we do are obviously based on that trades best practice's. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 (I turned off the mains, removed the fuses, checked the circuits with a multimeter and wore wellingtons and rubber gloves while doing the wiring?) so basicly you didnt do the work " safely....."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 hi barooga,in a way 'he' (angus) is incorrect by default, because as yet there is no cast iron wording (imo) referred to by some authoritative body which clamps down on the alarm trade or the diy'er, and states 'we' must install to the same designs and rigors as qualified electricians do, although fully appreciating many things we do are obviously based on that trades best practice's. regs alan can you not read man - page 30 of the building control pdf - its all there in black and white Arf - your in danger of making yourself look stupid. why not have an early night? alarms are electrical - no other argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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