barooga Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Must?BS7671 description on the BSI web site: "Ensure that your electrical installations conform to the latest safety guidelines" Guidelines does NOT equal MUST. And your copy states what exactly Andy?? Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topalarms Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 nope thats just not right - the inspecterate have there own codes of practise EN/BS is THE STANDARD for an alarm installation irrespective of who is fitting it But compliance is not obligatory. you dont know trading standards law either then? One of us doesn't! it has everything to do with mains electricity, its how you prove your install is safe - by showing compliance with the published regs for that elemant which in this case is EN/PD No, BS 7671 wiring regs deals with mains wiring compliance and in the case of a professionally installed fused spur for an alarm system, compliance is shown and certified by a 'minor works certificate' issued by a 'competent person'. Alarm regs such as BS 4737 EN 50131 and PD 6662 discuss alarm system installation and system compliance is shown and certified by an Inspectorate Certificate issued by the inspected installer. Unlike BS 7671 where a failure to comply could of itself lead to a criminal prosecution, failure to comply with alarm regs could only lead to a prosecution under Trading Standard Laws and only where a statement of compliance had been given or implied. No private individual can be prosecuted for ignoring alarm regs when installing a system for themselves, on their own premises. So tell me angus, Joe Public goes into B&Q and buys the system below and says 'stuff the regs' - what can anyone do about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 But compliance is not obligatory.One of us doesn't! and thats you based on your previous comments - start another thread about it, your claim that anyone can install for gain and not meet industry standards is just plain wrong No, BS 7671 wiring regs deals with mains wiring compliance you really do believe that 12v isnt electrical don`t you! madness and in the case of a professionally installed fused spur for an alarm system, compliance is shown and certified by a 'minor works certificate' issued by a 'competent person'. it says no such thing - there is no requirment to issue a MWC if DIY`ing Alarm regs such as BS 4737 EN 50131 and PD 6662 discuss alarm system installation and system compliance is shown and certified by an Inspectorate Certificate issued by the inspected installer. er - no it isnt, it`s shown by complying with the regs, the inspectorate issue certs to show compliance with THERE own codes of practise, the fact your not inspected DOES NOT mean you have cart blanch Unlike BS 7671 where a failure to comply could of itself lead to a criminal prosecution, ah - the clockwork alarm again? failure to comply with alarm regs could only lead to a prosecution under Trading Standard Laws and only where a statement of compliance had been given or implied. wrong - anyone installing for gain (be it financial or not) needs to achieve "as an average practitioner of that trade would ...." No private individual can be prosecuted for ignoring alarm regs when installing a system for themselves, on their own premises. until you understand that EN/PD is referenced by BS7671 as a way of " doing is safely.........." your really not going to understand a thing So tell me angus, Joe Public goes into B&Q and buys the system below and says 'stuff the regs' - what can anyone do about it? you tell me, Joe public goes into B&Q and buy that system, says "stuff the regs" and burns his house down and kills next doors kids, creates an earth impedance fault or puts 500v dc through himself......................... ignored ? remember this has been discussed many, many times here and on other forums, your just reposting the same old, same old thats been said before, 5 or 6 years ago before Part P was incorperated then yes you would have been right - now your just wrong, plain and simple. either you need to accept the new rules and move on or you need re training and TBH that isnt my problem or my job, just keep telling yourself the rules don`t apply to DIY`ers then maybe when your short of a 3a fuse or can`t be bothered to go back up your ladders to connect a nicad you could always use that as an excuse. there is little point in carrying this on so for now I`ll put you on ignore regards Angus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 yes now go read it again - that is a list of exemptions from notifiying I posted - NOT A LIST OF EXEMPTIONS FROM REGULATION hi power ? you mean 11kv and above ? thats dealt with by a different set of rules - you cannot escape the requirment set out on page 30 to " do it safely ........ " I`m still researching this - its my belief you can self certify a gas install via building control, but at least if I`m shown to be wrong I will admit it with good grace not seen many homes using kv power (apart from the telly tube) , so stop being pernicious you cussed beggar . what ever we say hear, none of us are diy so in effect don't matter who is right or wrong. if your researching CORGI your staff will be well overloaded my brother-in-law was a British Gas Instructor, has been out of that for years now, but runs a firm who install/maintain real big catapillar engine based private generators which run on natural gas, so we have many discussions whem we meet. regs may have changed (and what would i know ) but i believe if your not GORGI registered it is illegal to connect a new (or reconnect an existing boiler) to the gas supply, or any part of any gas pipes to the main supply. you can't even fit those gas cooker sockets (but many do). but you can actually stick the boiler on the wall, hook up the water pipes and fit the flue, but it then has to be dealt with by a GORGI engineer to connect, commision it and check your works. i think it also covers any later work undertaken on the boiler itself required for servicing/dismantling, but i bet most would change a duff micro-switch or water valve diaphragm themselves though (shhhh! ). imo it would be daft to fit the boiler without seeking proper advice, there are regs and best practice considerations where the boiler can and can't go, just like we have, where we don't normally fit the panels in lofts for instance (because it makes it hard to operate the keypad ). regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barooga Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 But compliance is not obligatory.Joe Public goes into B&Q and buys the system below and says 'stuff the regs' - what can anyone do about it? And if he uses something like the PSU posted earlier?? Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 And if he uses something like the PSU posted earlier?? and what if he swims the channel? thats an irrelevant question barooga, as the whole kit to be used with no if's no buts was clearly shown in the pic for the example. anyway, so where in your house did you fit that psu? regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topalarms Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 there is little point in carrying this on so for now I`ll put you on ignoreregards Angus lol ignorance to the very end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topalarms Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 And if he uses something like the PSU posted earlier?? Re-read the original question - we are not taking about extended electrical installations, we are talking simple DIY alarm systems and alarm regulations. If the DIYer decides to start doing more extensive electrical work he does so at his (and possible others) peril. BS7671 makes it clear how electrical installation should be carried out and Part P makes it clear when it is mandatory to get a Part P qualified electrician or do it DIY/Non-qualified and get it inspected [and when these requirements do not apply. Contrary to anguscantplay's rantings we are not here advocating incompetent people working on electrical installations, the illustration of the B&Q kit highlights how ridiculous his assertions are - fitting it would no more require compliance with regs than plugging in your stereo or your table lamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPAlarms Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 you tell me, Joe public goes into B&Q and buy that system, says "stuff the regs" and burns his house down and kills next doors kids, creates an earth impedance fault or puts 500v dc through himself......................... ignored ? In a word - Yes. Joe would plead ignorance and every judge in the country, realising that they themselves are just as ignorant as Joe (and 95% of the population), would have no option but to let him off lightly. Free Alarm Monitoring over the Internet from IP Alarms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 anyway, so where in your house did you fit that psu? regs alan for the cameras maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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