mjw Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 all i am trying to advise him on is that if he installs an alarm system on saturday then sunday night at 11.45 it goes wrong will he be prepared to go on that call knowing he has his full time job on monday morning to go to??also will he be testing the batteries every time he installs one to make sure that he hasnt got a duff battery? thanks cjt proably not BUT there are a lot of one man band outfits out there....unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 1st time i have added here, so i`ll be short and to the point. If he does go ahead and gets a call out is their the slightest chance he could diagnose and point the customer in their error in the way they are using the panel. Many a customer is grateful they have not had to wait "up to 4 hours" because of such advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 It is irresponsible for someone to offer to provide a service when they do not have the ability to provide what that service requires, e.g. 24-hour callout.He doesn't say he wont provide out of hours, we are making assumptions, he will just be unavailable 9-5.I know that there are many people out there doing it but as professional installers we should not be encouraging them to do so or telling everyone that it is okay to do it, it simply isn't.Why?Why? because the customer who assumes he/she is receiving a service actually isn't getting that service and is accordingly being misled. How many times on this forum have we heard a request for help with the explanation, "my installer is on holiday", "he can't come until next Saturday", "his phone isn't responding", etc, etc.Again, we are assuming he is being untruthful about the level of service they will receive, if he is honest from the outset and they know the guy is unavailable 9-5 then I see no real reason why not. i mean come on, how many call outs per day do you get and what ratio per installed system?Yes everyone has to start somewhere, but if a normal day job prevents you from providing proper cover then the place to start is with training/doing work on your own home or that of friends and family, (clearly telling them the limitations of the cover),/part-time employment/saving until you have enough to safely switch switch jobs.Assuming again that friends and family do not already have systems!I agree though that training is a must but this can be done in your own time in an evening class, design is the critical part of a trouble free system, along with good choice of kit. Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 my 2 pence for what its worth, is : - dont think that by starting up part time you could install alarm system (or cctv for that matter) and not be able to gone on a call out at 3am as if there is a problem with alarm and it is sounding for what ever reason and lets say mr blogg your customer cannot shut the alarm up what are you going to do if your either asleep and your mobiles off, youve had too much drinkies the nite b4, or you are on holiday and this mr blogg alarm sounds early in the morning? if your at work the next day and get called out at 3am you will not have enough sleep to cope with your job the next day. qfa What about servicing the alarm and testing the current on the battery, do you know how to test the system? do you know how many times a year the system should be serviced? what about servicing the system/battery what instruments would you use? Where is the best place for the panel, detectors, keypad, siren? These are all things that you should know. for example what if a detector faces a window and causes a false alarm, what if a door contact goes faulty on the system do you know what to look for to rectify the fault?What about say if the customer wants extra things added on a takeover system do you know how to default the panels?? Im not trying to sound hard here but these are things that alarm and security engineers / electricians that have worked in this industry like me for 3 and a half years up to now need to know. Another thing is what testing do you do on the cables and what form, details need documenting (e.g tamper circuit resistance). I take my job very seriously and have started up 15 months ago full time and offer a 24/7 service. If a fault appears on an alarm or cctv system i will go there and then in the night and sort it or make the fault out of the system temporarily. If i was you i would start up on your own full time and advertise but word of mouth is you best bet at all times. regards cjt qfa too but knowledge is arrangeable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 ...also will he be testing the batteries every time he installs one to make sure that he hasnt got a duff battery? thanks cjt surely he will do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 You've totally missed the point arfur, its not just the issue of skills, and electricians skills are a long way off skills required to setup in the alarm industry where design skills are so important, (just check out a few new build sites where the electricians have pre-wired), it has to do with the 24/7 cover required to provide the service - if you have a normal job during the week you cannot provide 24/7. hi Roger, no point missed but several i made, but let me make this quite clear - i would not encourage anyone to start any new buisness without undertaking deep research first, and that would apply to someone starting up a wheely bin cleaning service. and i agree, with pre - wires they are often not adequate, but lets be honest here the spec is usually down on drawing and what the client thinks he want's, not the sparks design or even asked his input into the design, he just puts in whats asked for and that particular firm do not fit any alarms, so have no real interest either. this is not the case with the O/P so lets deal with it on it's merits. open any pir or d/t detector, inside the box it will have a manufacturer's sheet in several languadges containing good advice by the designers on how to decide the best position, coverage, false alarm avoidance, wiring method, performance testing and so on, if he can read and adheres to them he has a damn good start. as to coverage and as i'm often told for no good reason - we don't know all the facts, he may well be working with a few mate's, or one who works nights shift or even part time, so they can cover day time calls, we have no right to pillory him just for asking especially without all the facts. the clue surely is in the question line i.e. "what do i need", shows me at least he cares enough to do the job properly, he wil make mistakes and learn from them and when big companies use 'subby's' and let 'engineers' loose afte 4 weeks intensive training, i think he has every right to proceed with his at least trade skills. personally i feel he would be wiser not to get into alarms but find an alternative, i have posted before imo there is no real money in alarms given the hassle and risk, compared to CCTv, Networking and Telecom's, but that is his decission not mine (or anyone else). regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerabloke Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 No you don't.No it doesn't. Anyone fitting spurs must test and issue a Minor Works Certificate but that does not require Part P. QFA Eucam Security Systems 0845 4630 746 www.eucam.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerabloke Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 ok heres a question. if any of you work for some one else ie national. you are on install and not service.an apprentice has wired an alarm system on his own and has run all cables on tray next to mains, ie zipped tied to the mains. you have no time on the job except to 2nd fix and commission. would you leave it knowing that service would more than likely get called to induced ac fault? Eucam Security Systems 0845 4630 746 www.eucam.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 The apprentice would have to re run where appropriate. Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerabloke Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 ok this is from my experience and my company. apprentice goes to site on his own (sent by my manager cuz we are short on engineers) another engineer tells boss what he has done but boss tells him just to crack on with 2nd fix why do we bother telling as we know it wont have the time on the job and it wont be rectified? oh yeah and told not to write it on the docket as it wont be paid for i personally would tell and write it on the docket, but this seems to happen everywhere at the minute Eucam Security Systems 0845 4630 746 www.eucam.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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