arfur mo Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 I am looking at working for myself at the weekend installing domestic intruder alarms. I am currently qualified as an electrician and hold 16th edition. Do i require part p before i start to install a fused spurs, also to a need to be self cert.More importanly what is the advice on setting up. Do i sign up for a limited company. I will be working at my current job during the week. Basically to put it bluntly what do i need to set this up Hi m240381, not so much part 'P' but part 'S' for serial B) . as a sparks you are used to parrellel wiring where intruder to use serial connections, and when asked buy prospective clients' could i fit the alarm myself?' i reply of course you could given basic skills with a drill and hand tools and comprehending a diagram. i have no extra digits - but i do get called 'clever dick' at times for resons i won't go into here , it's more what will you do if and when it starts to intermittently false alarm? putting your own system in is fine, doing it paid for a client it is no longer a 'paying hobby' you are protecting peoples property and possibly person to, and as others have said. what about call outs?, if the system starts to sound and they can't stop it what are you going to do then when your at work or 3 am after night out? if you do start his venture you need to apply very very high and strict working standards to everything you do, a dodgy connectoin on a lamp holder will cause a flicker, a dodgy connection to a pir will get people out of bed and into a very irate state of mind. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Did you just make up the word "Petrential"?As usual on here he got flamed, but a fully trained spark should know the regs on part P typo corrected, having been on other threads there is room for and has been a lot of debate on part 'P'. seems mad to me that i can fit a spur tapped of an existing socket, yet cant fit a spur next to the mains fuse box on it's own breaker as it needs certification. although a veteran of countless spur instalations having been taught the art of by a sparks i now tell the client to get a qualified sparks in to fit it, if need fit a plug and a long lead to nearest socket as a temp supply, then i don't have to sanction by watching a polish speaking gentleman who cannot speak a word of english, and so this all improves safety does it? regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Come on arfur, even you should agree that no one should be starting up in this industry doing weekends only - how are you going to make problems occur only at the weekend and only when you are not doing an install?It is irresponsible to start working in a field where 24/7 cover is required and you are just not in a position to provide that cover for the majority of the time - this is classic cowboy territory! Advice? - Work weekends on electrical and put the extra money in the bank until you've got enough to setup and do the job properly including having all of the necessary insurances to carry out alarm installation work. hi Roger, if you read what i whote properly and in context it was wrote you will see i'm not encouraging or supporting 'weekend fitters' out of hand. anyone is entitled to start up a buisiness in a trade as they see fit, and i encouraged him to concider all the ramifications of this trade in particular, and without trying to belittle the o/p. we know what the pitfalls are but he don't, thats why he sensibly asked and got abused for his trouble, instead of being seen as someone who really want's to do the job properly. the three companies i worked for prior to starting up, all started up that very same way and most of there staff were pooled from electricians, not from 'fly' security engineers for their instal skills. technical ability is why i was 'head hunted' to supply that need. i also said many companies started up exactely that same way, including mine - so i wonder did your's hit the ground running with all the expertise and resources idealy required at hand, from the word go? modern systems need far less physical skills, we don't do lace wiring under hardboard, pressure pads or t&b frames these days and rarely foil. alarm fitting is not the black art as it used to be concidered as, it's been made far easier to install and more reliable, this make's it cheaper and so more accessable to the minions. this o/p i assume, is aiming mainly at the private sector or small buisness, as a reasonbly skilled and competant sparks i assume he can hide cables as good as, even better than most of us can. so now he needs to learn detector positioning and system design, a well as diagnostics and the corrective actions. i know i feel more comfortable with him starting up than i would a local postman, and at least he had the gumption to find this forum to ask, and so deservedly earns my respect . regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antinode Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 what do i need to set up to install domestic alarms Some tools, ladders and the directions to ADK... Seriously mate, the domestic alarm market is saturated enough as it is around here. Every man and his dog fits alarms on weekends. If you're working during the week and are'nt able to support your systems during the week I would have another think if I were you. Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateurandy Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Seriously mate, the domestic alarm market is saturated enough as it is around here. Every man and his dog fits alarms on weekends. If you're working during the week and are'nt able to support your systems during the week I would have another think if I were you. Almost the first short and sensible comment (after the pointless flaming ); I wouldn't want a solitary part-timer with a different "day job" installing my alarm. If you are determined however, say so and eventually the flamers will give up and some sensible comments should creep in. But this is a rough place to walk into wide-eyed and innocent :!: I know nothing about the specific requirements of running an ALARM business, but I do know about running my own part-time business. I recommend talking to as many people as you can about the general issues, e.g. sole trader (as I am) vs limited company, VAT (unlikely to be needed), insurance requirements, whether your current employer has any issues about it, etc. Business Link are good to talk too, and free - have a look at their web site. If you come back and post again, with a few details of issues/decisions you've investigated the replies will hopefully be more valuable. We all had to start somewhere, as someone pointed out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateurandy Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Voice of experience then Lots of BUSINESS experience, but not in Alarms, as I said; but you omitted that, completely changing the meaning.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateurandy Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Out of interest what sort of response do you think I would receive if I went onto an electrical forum and asked for advice about starting up with electrical installation work ... weekend only? Polite, honest and constructive replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Why? Why? You need part P to install spurs, if you are having to use any cable then it is an addition, and needs part P. As you full well know, you do not need part P for changing existing eqipment, but a new spur is a new device and needs part P I am affraid. We do not touch them, too many legal implications, if you cannot fully test megger, earth loop fault test, and issue a certificate to this effect, then you cannot guarantee the integrity of your electrical work (spur) therefore you should not do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateurandy Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 I've got lots of experience in lecturing but that isn't going to equip me to be an alarm installer - your experience in business isn't going to help his customer when the alarm is going bonkers and he can't come because he's at work on his day job and it doesn't qualify you to criticise alarm engineers who comment on the inappropriateness of what he is contemplating! Maybe you missed the point of what I was saying, perhaps I didn't make it clear enough? I was trying to advise him POSITIVELY on the other (non-alarm-specific) issues of setting up a business, which are common to all ...... If I was criticising it was for the way comments were made, which in many cases was obscuring any meaningful content. A new member, not entirely made welcome? Based on some of the comments, a bit of Market Research (including the competition) would be a good start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitel Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 You've totally missed the point arfur, its not just the issue of skills, and electricians skills are a long way off skills required to setup in the alarm industry where design skills are so important, (just check out a few new build sites where the electricians have pre-wired), it has to do with the 24/7 cover required to provide the service - if you have a normal job during the week you cannot provide 24/7. Its a very common thing to see these days on new builds where the house builder has their sparky do the alarm and to find most of the alarm cables are run with the mains ,they think its alright but its a hard fault to put right once the building has been plasterd and i get a call from the new house occupier to say they keep getting false alarms theres only so much an ACT 13/13 will do ,so yes its just as much about the design as the actual install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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