Kenneth Volt Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Hi all! I am planning the installation of an intrusion system on a flat I've recently purchased. All windows are west facing so they get hit everyday with the Sun but I'll have a privacy film installed and curtains that will cut a lot of glare, but even so I am planning on installing all PIRs facing inside according to the attached blueprint. The control panel is a Texecom Premier Elite 88 with a ComIP and a ComGSM for backup. Some questions: 1. Do you guys think this a good placement of PIRs? They are all DualTec from Honeywell (DT8016AF4) and they are represented by the blue arrows. 2. On each sliding window (including the balcony one) I will be installing one Grade 3 magnetic contact (CQR SC570) and a shock sensor (Alarmtech CD470) in the middle of the top section of the frame. I am connecting them in series with the EOL resistor in the last one and the alarm resistor in each alarm contact. Texecom allows up to 3 sensores in one zone in DP configuration (I won't see masking of the magnetic contacts, it will be considered tamper). Good practice? Suggestions? 3. The entry door is a security door with a lot of steel. What can I expect from the magnetic contacts? What precautions do I need to take? 4. The red circles are flood sensors. Bought a Sentrol 5501 and 4 5515 sensors to connect to it. In the datasheet they talk about a closed loop. Can this can be wired directly to one zone of the Elite 88? They say the connection for output is polarity sensitive. The manual is quite sparse unfortunately. Here's a link: 5500 Moisture Detection Series Installation Instructions (firesecurityproducts.com) 5. Which seismic sensor do you recommend? I've been looking at Alarmtech's VD500, seems quite good. But I've heard good thing about the Honeywell SC100... Thanks in advance for all the help. Regards, Kenneth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 *Positions seem sensible. Extra pointless sensor in the middle hall area, possibly? *Don't wire multiple devices on one zone and do everything EOL not DP. You'll have fun getting G3 interference contacts to work if you've never done them, probably overkill. *SC570 should manage on steel they have a decent magnet, tho it's not ideal it affects gap of contacts unless they are designed to be mounted on steel. Depends on the door, containing steel would be different from a steel door. *They could be wired in if they are clean contacts, you'd have to program as Auxiliary or something as there is no "Flood" zone type. *You'd use a "Viper" shock sensor for doors and windows, something like a VIPER or Impaq. Consider risk of external false alarms like bird strikes. Why Premier 88 over a 48? ComIP for programming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Id point the detectors at the windows rather than away from. They will activate much quicker when someone comes in. Dual techs are not a good idea for domestics they are designed for hostile areas. These detectors normally come with a standard pir which are not as good as a decent quad element. The thought is they dont need a decent pir because the use a dual detection system. but because the microwave will see through walls ceilings and floors if not set up correctly they will give you problems especially in a flat where you have neighbours from all sides (another good reason to point them at the windows) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 I would swerve the G3 contacts too, G3 is not necessarily any more secure but they are far more sensitive and will give you more trouble especially with metal doors that can become magnetised over time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 What floor are you on? It looks a nice flat layout I guess the value of the contents are high as you are going a little ott on a diy project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 19 minutes ago, PeterJames said: Id point the detectors at the windows rather than away from. They will activate much quicker when someone comes in. Dual techs are not a good idea for domestics they are designed for hostile areas. These detectors normally come with a standard pir which are not as good as a decent quad element. The thought is they dont need a decent pir because the use a dual detection system. but because the microwave will see through walls ceilings and floors if not set up correctly they will give you problems especially in a flat where you have neighbours from all sides (another good reason to point them at the windows) I disagree. I honestly thought you were trolling... Yes you have to tune the microwave correctly but they are all pointing into your own property if positioned correctly. No idea with the Honeywell listed but all the DT's I fit are also Quads, worth checking yes. As you say no point in a DT with one of the technologies always active. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 2 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: I disagree. I honestly thought you were trolling... Yes you have to tune the microwave correctly but they are all pointing into your own property if positioned correctly. No idea with the Honeywell listed but all the DT's I fit are also Quads, worth checking yes. As you say no point in a DT with one of the technologies always active. We'll have to agree to disagree there is absolutely no advantages to fit DT's in a dwelling. Especially so in a flat. Definitely not trolling, it is something I would not do, without good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Pointing sensors at windows is the exact opposite of how sensors should be fitted. PIRs or DT's is a meh issue, if installed correctly I don't see why not. I'd spec Optex quads but I don't see an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth Volt Posted September 5, 2023 Author Share Posted September 5, 2023 21 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: *Positions seem sensible. Extra pointless sensor in the middle hall area, possibly? Extra security... A sensor is so cheap... why not? 21 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: *Don't wire multiple devices on one zone and do everything EOL not DP. You'll have fun getting G3 interference contacts to work if you've never done them, probably overkill. Ok! Just ordered another 8 zone expander... Yes, what I meant was with an EOL resistor, alarm resistor and I can even put an adequate value resistor in parallel to the AM contacts so the panel knows something is fishy with that contact sensor. 21 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: *SC570 should manage on steel they have a decent magnet, tho it's not ideal it affects gap of contacts unless they are designed to be mounted on steel. Depends on the door, containing steel would be different from a steel door. That will be only the main door so because it's also covered by a PIR no problem if I have to disable it until a put in a more suitable one. 21 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: *They could be wired in if they are clean contacts, you'd have to program as Auxiliary or something as there is no "Flood" zone type. Thanks! 21 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: *You'd use a "Viper" shock sensor for doors and windows, something like a VIPER or Impaq. Consider risk of external false alarms like bird strikes. Don't think I'll be having bird strikes on these windows as they will be fitted with reflective film and they usually go away. 21 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: Why Premier 88 over a 48? ComIP for programming? More zones, more areas and the middle between the 48 and 168. 168 would be overkill. Thanks for all you help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth Volt Posted September 5, 2023 Author Share Posted September 5, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, PeterJames said: Id point the detectors at the windows rather than away from. They will activate much quicker when someone comes in. Dual techs are not a good idea for domestics they are designed for hostile areas. These detectors normally come with a standard pir which are not as good as a decent quad element. The thought is they dont need a decent pir because the use a dual detection system. but because the microwave will see through walls ceilings and floors if not set up correctly they will give you problems especially in a flat where you have neighbours from all sides (another good reason to point them at the windows) The manual specifically states they should be pointed away from windows. AFAIK they can be regulated regarding the MW range and besides they will only activate if PIR and MW see something. Besides I have thick concrete walls Thanks for you comments 20 hours ago, PeterJames said: What floor are you on? It looks a nice flat layout I guess the value of the contents are high as you are going a little ott on a diy project. It's the last one with a very accessible balcony from the roof therefore the extra detectors and protection. And I'm an engineer and I like to do stuff like this. Regarding the contents I'll not comment on that obviously Edited September 5, 2023 by Kenneth Volt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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