Alx

[Alexander Gibson 0]

Hi all Service engineer with scottish company.Has anybody any info on racal guardall Map 6

 

[sixwheeledbeast 552]

It divides one panel zone into 6 separate latching circuits. I suppose not something you see about much any more.

[PeterJames 744]

The map six is wired in series with what look like diodes across each circuit. The diodes are all numbered and when the circuit is open it changes the current flow on that circuit so the panel knows which circuit is open.

A very clever design, bit like how ID systems work nowadays.

[sixwheeledbeast 552]

iD ... nowadays?

[PeterJames 744]

6 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

iD ... nowadays?

HKC still have ID 

[Alexander Gibson 0]

Are map6s still in use?

[sixwheeledbeast 552]

If they are on a site working. You wouldn't fit one now.

[MrHappy 1,921]

6 minutes ago, Alexander Gibson said:

Are map6s still in use?

 

personally never seen one,

 

however alarms... 30+ yr old controls ain't uncommon

[Alexander Gibson 0]

Engineers 30+ not uncommon either.

[PeterJames 744]

2 hours ago, Alexander Gibson said:

Are map6s still in use?

I have a site with one, he has a proper alarm as well, but uses the map 6 to check if doors are open before setting, the leds are active wether its armed or not. I would say its 40 years old rather than 30, late 70's early 80s.

[al-yeti 601]

On 03/05/2021 at 12:05, PeterJames said:

HKC still have ID 

But it doesn't use that method does it? You making this all up? I knew you were a blagger 

[sixwheeledbeast 552]

I know ADE iD was a data BUS, I was told it was a proprietary version based around RS485 no idea how true that was.

I recall Map6 was based around zener diodes of different values, but I only ever seen one in all my years.

No idea about HKC, I assume it's not ADE iD? If so I don't see the point, why not just be BUS based like keypads be that 485 or whatever the panel uses.

[al-yeti 601]

4 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

I know ADE iD was a data BUS, I was told it was a proprietary version based around RS485 no idea how true that was.

I recall Map6 was based around zener diodes of different values, but I only ever seen one in all my years.

No idea about HKC, I assume it's not ADE iD? If so I don't see the point, why not just be BUS based like keypads be that 485 or whatever the panel uses.

Yes bus based but not on the coms for keypads or expanders etc , no biscuits etc required , just Id via tamper as you might like wireless 

[PeterJames 744]

On 03/05/2021 at 11:55, PeterJames said:

A very clever design, bit like how ID systems work nowadays.

 

3 hours ago, al-yeti said:

But it doesn't use that method does it? You making this all up? I knew you were a blagger 

 

[james.wilson 800]

9 hours ago, al-yeti said:

But it doesn't use that method does it? You making this all up? I knew you were a blagger 

No its way different. Old ID was designed for very short cable on relatively big cables. It was for cars. It was then given to us in bigger lengths. 

Hkc use a completely different system but it's limited to 10 addresses on a single core. Mixing it on cores is not supported but I've done it on old ID systems I have 

[PeterJames 744]

21 hours ago, james.wilson said:

No its way different.

 

On 04/05/2021 at 19:02, PeterJames said:

A very clever design, bit like how ID systems work nowadays.

Define "a bit like"? My definition would not be "its the same as". My definition would be "it is a similar idea"

 

Both systems use id chip of one form or another on one fecking circuit! Yes that's where the similarities end but you cannot deny that they are similar. Its not a pair of cables per zone is it?

 

And the Map 6 we have is on a big house and its on old alarm cable, but not a small circuit by any means 

[PeterJames 744]

Oh and Map 6 as the name suggests is limited to 6 fecking detectors, that's four fecking less than ten!

[norman 1,129]

Calm down grandad, you're arguing with yourself again. 

[sixwheeledbeast 552]

I would argue its more like EOL with six different shunt values, a data BUS would be different to measuring a pair for electrical resistance or voltage.

It really isn't that big of a deal to be getting fecked over? Wouldn't mind having a look at one (or a manual) again actually, they were pretty clever for there age.

 

[PeterJames 744]

9 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

they were pretty clever for there age.

That's what I said, is there no manual in the downloads ?

34 minutes ago, norman said:

Calm down grandad, you're arguing with yourself again. 

Pff! Grandad yourself, you're not far behind me you know!

 

 

James knows Im only bantering 

[james.wilson 800]

Id was/is clever but basic and doesn't handle any interference. 

It not data as such

In 100ms the panel would pulse between 2.85v to 6.5v 

1 pulse for biscuit 1 10 pulses for biscuit 10 and so on. Each biscuit counts the pulses and draws a different current if open or closed after its pulse count has occured

After all 30 have done this the panel rises the line to 11.25v which resets the counters and tells the biscuits to start counting again. All in 100ms. If a biscuit reports open for 3 scans (300ms) the panel then reports alarm. 

Later panel had this programmable though

 

You can imagine how any sort of interference would cock up this scanning