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Sirtoddius

What cctv brand are fellow installers using?

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Evening guys. 

 

What brands of cctv for commercial properties do people use. 

The company i work for uses mostly hik(and very occasionally some unbranded tat).

 

I need to find a hik alternative as most of our work is in NHS/ government buildings and your not allowed to use hikvision in those type of buildings. That’s government law.  

 

Cheers

 

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35 minutes ago, Sirtoddius said:

I need to find a hik alternative as most of our work is in NHS/ government buildings and your not allowed to use hikvision in those type of buildings. That’s government law.  

 

what the point ?

 

If they don't want hik they must have spec of want they do want ?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

 

what the point ?

 

If they don't want hik they must have spec of want they do want ?

 

 

The local councils we work for are not security experts. They are entrusting us to provide them with good equipment. It’s nothing to do with spec. 

 

Due to the Chinese government ownership of hik and the fact that they can dial in regardless of what security end users set up we have to come up with a alternative option. 

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1 hour ago, james.wilson said:

We use our own brand that isn't hik based. There are quite a few brands actually manufactured by hik

 

around 70 according to google

 

which is why a blacklist of anyone but hikvision is pointless

 

 

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7 hours ago, MrHappy said:

 

around 70 according to google

 

which is why a blacklist of anyone but hikvision is pointless

 

 

I agree but unfortunately we are governed by our biggest customers. I think it's following a ban that's been put in place in the USA. There is Already hik stuff fitted in high security government buildings. 

We done a lot of work with huawei and they was stopped from doing the wifi on the underground due to security fears. So virgin got the contract. Now they are going to be providing the 5g network. 

 

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5G network is still up in the air I believe.

There's plenty of kit that's not Hik or Dahua you just have to shop about. Axis, Pelco, Bosch, Techwin, Vivotek, Honeywell to name a few.

20 hours ago, MrHappy said:

If they don't want hik they must have spec of want they do want ?

They don't have a preferred kit there is just a list of blacklisted manufacturers AFAIK.

I think it's right we should question the integrity of equipment installed.

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15 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

5G network is still up in the air I believe.

There's plenty of kit that's not Hik or Dahua you just have to shop about. Axis, Pelco, Bosch, Techwin, Vivotek, Honeywell to name a few.

 

Isn't Honeywell Hikvision OEM?

 

Isn't Dahua & any other kit made in certain Chinese factory's banned for US use ?

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27 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

 

Isn't Honeywell Hikvision OEM?

Ah, you maybe right. Not sure if it's all of the range tho.

 

29 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

Isn't Dahua & any other kit made in certain Chinese factory's banned for US use ?

Only the banned manufacturers list (Hik, ZTE, Huawei plus a few others), not everything Chinese.

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52 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

5G network is still up in the air I believe.

There's plenty of kit that's not Hik or Dahua you just have to shop about. Axis, Pelco, Bosch, Techwin, Vivotek, Honeywell to name a few.

They don't have a preferred kit there is just a list of blacklisted manufacturers AFAIK.

I think it's right we should question the integrity of equipment installed.

Yeah. Dahua is another big one banned from the states. 

Although i did see that in a few casinos out there.  

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55 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

 

I think it's right we should question the integrity of equipment installed.

Totally agree. 

Especially when it is potentially to do with national security. 

I will have to try and find the article I read that said about a way they can dial into a networked Dvr/nvr without passwords etc.  

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32 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

Ah, you maybe right. Not sure if it's all of the range tho.

 

Only the banned manufacturers list (Hik, ZTE, Huawei plus a few others), not everything Chinese.

 

From the US

 



Security Camera Compliance with the 2019 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA)

 

On Aug 1, 2018, the US government passed a resolution, effective Aug 1, 2019, to prevent the federal government, and anyone else who is involved with national security, from making purchases of telecommunications and surveillance cameras originally manufactured in 5 specific factories in China. The ban affects some or all Honeywell, Hikvision, Dahua, Lorex, Swann, LTS, Annke, Alibi, Laview, WBox, Interlogix, Flir, Bosch, ICRealtime, QSee, Panasonic, ADT, Indigo Vision, and many more security products.

 

Your not going to avoid the potential exploits of a blacklisted supplier by avoiding a certain brand ,  its way too complex

 

 

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6 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

 

From the US

 

 

 

 

Your not going to avoid the potential exploits of a blacklisted supplier by avoiding a certain brand ,  its way too complex

 

 

The way they see it , it's damage limitation nothing else 

 

Any hik rebadged still ends up using hikconnect or an app connected to them

 

So if your contract says don't use it ,why would you risk using hik with another label on it, as eventually it will lead to there software and updates and you won't get paid

 

 

I now opted to use what genie wish range have (only different supplier with no badge and 1/3 of the cost  )

 

All made by TVT China .......

 

Edited by al-yeti
Grammar is bad as it is all this china talk making me type even weirder
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there need to be whitelist

24 minutes ago, al-yeti said:

Any hik rebadged still ends up using hikconnect or an app connected to them

 

So if your contract says don't use it ,why would you risk using hik with another label on it, as eventually it will lead to there software and updates and you won't get paid

 

I'd assume most don't know what kit is under what badge

 

& when the products are revised there's a chance it could be sourced from OEM

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On 07/05/2019 at 22:13, Sirtoddius said:

E

 

I need to find a hik alternative as most of our work is in NHS/ government buildings and your not allowed to use hikvision in those type of buildings. That’s government law.  

 

Cheers

 

 

We use https://www.videcon.co.uk/ as the alternative to HIK

 

On 07/05/2019 at 22:50, MrHappy said:

 

what the point ?

 

If they don't want hik they must have spec of want they do want ?

 

 

 

The majority of Councils / Government customers run there CCTV/Security projects under NEC3 contracts and CDM rules.

They expect the security experts they have chosen, who would have been selected to go onto there procurement framework to be principal Designer/designer. Its extremely rare you will come across a government institute who would become design responsible.

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Thanks to those to helped. 

 

It’s a minefield but at the same time understandable from the governments point of view. It’s obviously been researched by them.

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21 minutes ago, Sirtoddius said:

t’s obviously been researched by them.

Nah.

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On 08/05/2019 at 20:29, Sirtoddius said:

Totally agree. 

Especially when it is potentially to do with national security. 

I will have to try and find the article I read that said about a way they can dial into a networked Dvr/nvr without passwords etc.  

Did you manage to find the article about them logging into the systems 

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We've been advised by the 'expert' that a local council brought in, that we could use hik, as long as its only cameras, and not dvrs, and only if the system was coax based, rather than IP.

 

The basis of the conversation being that if its not a hik dvr, and the system isn't IP, then they couldn't possibly dial into the cameras, as that would have to be via the dvr, which not being hik, couldn't happen. 

 

Although a lot of the larger buildings we look after for said council are all IP, as the original design was all done via cat5 and switches on each floor. 

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Doesnt make sense, they either trust Hik or they dont, the camera can be just as much a problem as the recorder, in fact more so because there are more of them. I have found Chinese cameras that report to a cloud, even though they were never set up by the installation company to do so (as far as we are aware)http://2827476.seetong.com/ admin/1234

Now I am no expert, but if the cameras automatically talk to the cloud then, in theory, surely the cloud could automatically talk to them. Cameras are made to stream footage so again what's to stop them doing a ddos attack if given the right command from a cloud. 

I am very careful what I install, and how it's installed in government and council buildings.

 

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8 hours ago, PeterJames said:

Doesnt make sense, they either trust Hik or they dont, the camera can be just as much a problem as the recorder, in fact more so because there are more of them. I have found Chinese cameras that report to a cloud, even though they were never set up by the installation company to do so (as far as we are aware)http://2827476.seetong.com/ admin/1234

Now I am no expert, but if the cameras automatically talk to the cloud then, in theory, surely the cloud could automatically talk to them. Cameras are made to stream footage so again what's to stop them doing a ddos attack if given the right command from a cloud. 

I am very careful what I install, and how it's installed in government and council buildings.

 

What you on about man?

 

If it's coax or balun based then the hik camera won't be talking to jack let alone jill

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1 minute ago, al-yeti said:

What you on about man?

 

If it's coax or balun based then the hik camera won't be talking to jack let alone jill

I only read the first line of his post, but it was a very interesting story 

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I would say any ethernet device would be how to decide on the products origin.

Why use Hik cameras and trap your self to TVI DVR when you could use a vast choice of other 4 format cameras if using analogue solution.

 

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12 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

I would say any ethernet device would be how to decide on the products origin.

Why use Hik cameras and trap your self to TVI DVR when you could use a vast choice of other 4 format cameras if using analogue solution.

 

No need to get trapped , that's what the hybrid DVRs are for

 

But then you know that 

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