sixwheeledbeast Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Sigh.... Resistors go in the device, no excuses. One zone, one detector, no excuses. Map the zones on the keypad to spare zones and use the spare keypad wires if required. Re-arm will automatically isolate zone(s) that are active at re-arm. At no point does the system disarm or include omitted zones during a re-arm. The system will re-arm and "zone locked out" will be triggered. Also as I have said best to have a front door contact, then if the Hall PIR is locked out you will still have protection and an entry timer. Not used a 24-W yet so Ricochet zones may not start at Zone 009 on these, like the bigger panels with expanders; come to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uwave Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 Thanks again but maybe I did not explain correctly regarding resistors or maybe I misunderstand? For the 2 serial pirs as I do not have wires between pirs but from each pir to control panel then as I read the above circuit diagram on the left, one wire from control panel goes to one pir nc alarm contact where inside the pir I fit the 4k7 resistor across the alarm nc contact and common and a return wire from the common side of the alarm contact comes back to control panel where I connect this wire to a wire to the second pir alarm nc contact and again 4k7 across this pir alarm nc and common contact in pir then common of alarm contact wired back to control panel. Now here in the control panel I connect the second pir alarm return wire through 2k2 resistor and back to the second pir to connect to tamper, tamper return to control panel then out to first pir tamper and return. I did not fully explain I guess but this is what I meant and I guess you thiought I planned to fit all resisters in control panel as I was not clear enough, my mistake I only meant to connect 2k2 resister inside controlm pannel. Pir "locked out" - I assume this means pir has failed and will not detect anything...does this mean only entry route is not protected as there is no way to get to this route without passing other pirs apart from 2 very thick solid oak doors and 5 lever mortice locks in each. Not perfect I accept if locksmith used but good enough for my peace of mind though I agree door contact is best - but I'm not willing to fit them...maybe extra exit pir's is an option. But thanks for your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 For the 2 serial pirs as I do not have wires between pirs but from each pir to control panel then as I read the above circuit diagram on the left, one wire from control panel goes to one pir nc alarm contact where inside the pir I fit the 4k7 resistor across the alarm nc contact and common and a return wire from the common side of the alarm contact comes back to control panel where I connect this wire to a wire to the second pir alarm nc contact and again 4k7 across this pir alarm nc and common contact in pir then common of alarm contact wired back to control panel. Now here in the control panel I connect the second pir alarm return wire through 2k2 resistor and back to the second pir to connect to tamper, tamper return to control panel then out to first pir tamper and return. I did not fully explain I guess but this is what I meant and I guess you thiought I planned to fit all resisters in control panel as I was not clear enough, my mistake I only meant to connect 2k2 resister inside control pannel. It doesn't matter how you "planned" to do it. All the resistors must go at the device end and not in the panel. Pir "locked out" - I assume this means pir has failed and will not detect anything...does this mean only entry route is not protected as there is no way to get to this route without passing other pirs apart from 2 very thick solid oak doors and 5 lever mortice locks in each. Not perfect I accept if locksmith used but good enough for my peace of mind though I agree door contact is best - but I'm not willing to fit them...maybe extra exit pir's is an option. Locked out = isolated until the system is disarmed due to activation or active during re-arming. Two "exit PIR's" is pointless IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uwave Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 Hi - Can you advise where the 2k2 resister is fitted that would be electrically different from my explanation? I can see I can fit it either at pir 2 common or .....nope! I just realsied what you mean I can fit it betweem pir 2 alarm common and tamper nc contact - saves resistance of 2 wire length (neglidgible but there) between pir 2 and control panel...about 10 ft. But point taken - Thanks. So if an alarm occurs and the sensor remains "alarm detected" then on auto rearm this zone is isolated - I assume this applies to all zones? Thanks for pointing this out - puts more pressure on me getting a dialler to call my mate to reset in case no neighbours around. So I can see why 2 pirs now do not help. I'm learning! My old system would alarm infinitum on auto reset..... Great advice - Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rulland Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 And if the system rearms and goes off on a faulty/ active PIR ad infinitum then the neighbours and mate and prospective intruder will soon ignor it. The whole idea of a rearm with a zone omitted through a problem means that it will at least afford some real tangible noise when it should and not be ignored through false activations continuously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Hi - Can you advise where the 2k2 resister is fitted that would be electrically different from my explanation? I can see I can fit it either at pir 2 common or .....nope! I just realsied what you mean I can fit it betweem pir 2 alarm common and tamper nc contact - saves resistance of 2 wire length (neglidgible but there) between pir 2 and control panel...about 10 ft.This 2K2 is the end of line resistor and as you can guess from it's name it goes at the furthest point. If fitted elsewhere or if wires are series to and from the controls, wiring will not be tampered and a cut wire will not show as a cut wire. This is why one zone = one detector. So if an alarm occurs and the sensor remains "alarm detected" then on auto rearm this zone is isolated - I assume this applies to all zones?Yes, all zones setup for this. Which is advised to stop nuisance alarms. The whole idea of a rearm with a zone omitted through a problem means that it will at least afford some real tangible noise when it should and not be ignored through false activations continuously.Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uwave Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 Hi I realise the issue of nuisance alarms - I just mentioned my old one does not ignore pir fault o/c as far as I'm aware on auto rearm and luckily has been totally reliable and unphased in usgage or with power dips/outages due to bad weather (live in country and too common an event) which has often tripped neighbours alarms. Its 25 years old and luckily never failed until just a few weeks ago which is timely as I was thinking of replacing it for a more modern unit as my wife is sick of climbing over string and tin cans. EOL is fine too just I got it in my head using the return wire from pir 2 alarm and source wire to pir 2 tamper so to have 2k2 inside panel connecting them together. Putting 2k2 in pir saves using 2 equal length/type wires which are uneccessary to use. In both cases the 2k2 would be electrically furthest away from control panel but your advice is appreciated and of course better than what I had planned to do. Once again, Many Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 with power dips/outages due to bad weather (live in country and too common an event) which has often tripped neighbours alarms. Common myth, "alarms go off in bad weather and power outages". If an alarm goes off in a power outage it has something wrong with it. In both cases the 2k2 would be electrically furthest away from control panel but your advice is appreciated and of course better than what I had planned to do.It doesn't matter about where it is placed "electrically", but I have explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 you'll work it out, this industry is full of idiots and they do ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rulland Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Ronnies on a Friday night mission judging by his posts, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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