matthew.brough Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 (Probably going to go off topic) Are you finding prox tags popular? With the acpo policy being what it is there isn't much if a choice but to like them! It's a divided camp. We have customers that detest them and go back to using codes but unsettling from outside the premises and we have customers that much prefer them to codes. As a general rule the more manual the persons job, the more they don't like fobs. The type of customer that complains to us about them are green keepers, caretakers etc as they seem to damage them easily which causes problems. I prefer them as it one action instead of 5 - 7 depending on the pin size or on the panels we use that would be 7 - 9. The issue is when you forget your fob or it stops working, then there's a problem. The problem was, and still is, some manufacturers don't consider the end user. Having a simple 'enter' button is often all it takes. Unfortunately keypads often had/have a button that does not make it's use obvious. Especially the ones we use. It is PIN+off+alarmgroup+enter www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 (Probably going to go off topic) Are you finding prox tags popular? Very, More popular from the installation company perspective and if your looking at insecure prox then the alarm industry is busted wide open. Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Very, More popular from the installation company perspective and if your looking at insecure prox then the alarm industry is busted wide open. Guilty as charged. What's the better of 2 evils, insecure pins or insecure cards? www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergibbons Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 The problem was, and still is, some manufacturers don't consider the end user. Having a simple 'enter' button is often all it takes. Unfortunately keypads often had/have a button that does not make it's use obvious. I find some of the panels very hard to use. "Yes" and "No" do "Yes" and "No" at some points, but then "No" and "A" cycle through the menu and "Yes" exits? A nd the two arrow keys don't do anything? What? I have a blog, some of which is about alarm security and reverse engineering:http://cybergibbons.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I must confess the user experience never came into my thought process. I bought kit based on our engineer experience with it. I think that's why iOS was so popular as the user experience was so good. In the alarm world I'd say there is a certain amount of the systems are designed by engineers for engineers and that the user is a small part of the thought process with a couple of notable exceptions. www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I find some of the panels very hard to use. "Yes" and "No" do "Yes" and "No" at some points, but then "No" and "A" cycle through the menu and "Yes" exits? A nd the two arrow keys don't do anything? What? Once worked for a large multi national. Big R&D dept. They developed a new machine with, what they thought, was the dogs danglies in user interface simplicity. R&D rejected all concerns raised when internal pre launch demo's were done - because they knew best.. So, MD made them take it out into the town centre and do joe public testing trials. Woops. Lots of red faces. Total redesign required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 (Probably going to go off topic) Are you finding prox tags popular? personally i like them, there are many that systems out there that are not connected for Police attendance, so it is not a requirement. it is very convenient and removes a lot of the user panic, it identifies the user in the log and that greatly aids any fault finding because you know who to ask questions of and check on their procedures. it saves wear on the keypads, and can't be 'surfed' so ideal for kids who use their systems in front of their mates. against them is the risk of loss with home keys especially when a bag is stolen, info about the address is likely to be in a diary or mobile leaving that home and system vulnerable, but then people will write down codes in the strangest of places - even on the keypad with indelible pens . best option for high security is using fob and code, but most users soon get bored doing that after the initial 'gadget' novelty period wears off. If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul. Giles Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 With our systems it is set via PIN, unset via PROX. The PROX is just a set/unset tool with the Galaxy so you still need a pin to reset faults etc. It is poorly done on the Galaxy IMO, the user has to hold the tag to the keypad for far too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergibbons Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 if you have the user manual and read its advice, it usually mentions do not use sequential codes, and to change the default code. this is because many panels have sequential default codes and could be overcome, as you have found out. or an intruder knowing the default for that panel trying their luck knowing many users are to timid or lazy to tinker. Yes, 2222 is just an example, I have to enter the pin hundreds of times when messing around with these, so simple is good. I think usability is a massive thing with alarms. I see exactly the same issue with door locks. Some people have three different locks on their door. A nightlatch and two keyed different lever locks. Three keys, two of which look the same to the user. So they only lock the nightlatch, if you are lucky. I have a blog, some of which is about alarm security and reverse engineering:http://cybergibbons.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I find some of the panels very hard to use. "Yes" and "No" do "Yes" and "No" at some points, but then "No" and "A" cycle through the menu and "Yes" exits? A nd the two arrow keys don't do anything? What? likely you've played with Gardtec kit then . To get your clients and your head around it, the 'logic' is do you agree with what is in the display? YES? or NO? i.e. if not not press No. Setting up part sets when i initially used Gardtec panels confused the hell out of me, but if you think about it the system is very logical, but perhaps it has a few to many steps. If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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