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Direct Response Security On Rogue Traders


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Watchdog tonight showed a sting where Direct Security were involved.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2010/06/rogue_directresponse.html

Our actress has told the salesman that she was worried about crime which is the reason why she's interested in purchasing a burglar alarm. Mr Hook uses this opportunity to prey on those fears and starts telling tales of how burglaries have destroyed the lives of people he has met.

"People have taken their lives as a result of burglary, people have got divorced as a result of burglary, it's one of the most devastating things. A gentleman said to me, 'I've no idea, you know, what a sexual rape feels like' he said 'but my wife feels absolutely soiled as a result'".

Graeme Dow is not impressed so far and thinks Christopher Hook is using scare techniques to win himself a sale.

"None of these have anything to do with burglar alarms, so it's quite a disgraceful approach to try and sell by fear".

But then Mr Hook makes an extraordinary claim. He says Direct Response is in "constant link and connection with the nearest police car to your home at the instant the incident occurs" and says they don't even have to call through to the police station. Graeme begs to differ.

"Absolute and utter tripe. All phone calls go through to the alarm receiving centre to the police control room. The police control room contact the police car. There is no way under the sun, that this could ever be remotely true. Blatant lies".

Direct Response Security Systems Ltd has since written to us, and told us they think neither Chris Hook nor the company have done anything wrong.

I did think that these sort of tactics had been removed from our industry. I find it worrying that it takes watchdog to highlight this. As i work for an NSI gold company i have to ask myself how on earth can these sort of things happen and not be handled by the inspectorate. This must have been going on for some time. Im shocked to say this firm are an NSI silver firm (not gold i will add) but i will have to ask for comment from them as to what complaints etc have been recieved.

James

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I have spoke to the NSI regarding this issue. I did think that this srt of thing couldnt happen with an approved company. Frankly im very disappointed. This IMHO damages the industry as whole and many people will think we are all the same. Im concerned that it takes watchdog to raise this issue and im embarresed to say that self regulation IMO has failed here.

Im told that the sales guy in question has now been dismissed by the firm, and i assume their stance is that this was a one off incident etc.

NSI informed me that a decision is yet to be taken on further investigation on this, but id hope and assume that some sort of action will be taken. One issue though is that there is no way for the general public to find out those findings or if any action is taken as its confidential between the company and NSI. I will be speaking to the cheif executive to voice my concerns and will update you once i have done this.

taken from the NSI website

  • operating to the highest level of business excellence through achievement of the industry specific ISO 9001 Quality Management system(NACOSS Gold only)?

NSI NACOSS Gold & Systems Silver approved companies can answer 'yes' to these questions. NSI provides the most rigorous inspection process to ensure that all its approved companies continuously meet the highest standards.

Taken from the SSAIB website

Certificated providers must also demonstrate technical competence and ethical conduct when it comes to providing fire detection and alarm or security services to your business.

I have also tried to speak to the SSAIB but i am awaiting a call from Geoff Tate so have no infomation on this yet.

I do also wonder what ACPO's position is on this as security companies are not even allowed to picture a police car etc on their marketing infomation, however i have never thought about claiming we had a link to off duty coppers and the police cars themselves.

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Guest RJBsec

I have also tried to speak to the SSAIB but i am awaiting a call from Geoff Tate so have no infomation on this yet.

We know the feeling :whistle:

I do also wonder what ACPO's position is on this as security companies are not even allowed to picture a police car etc on their marketing infomation, however i have never thought about claiming we had a link to off duty coppers and the police cars themselves.

Not on the pictures issue, but a year or so ago the same type of issue of overselling, particularly to the elderly, was raised by the Wiltshire Police regarding St John's Security (SSAIB Approved) and the SSAIB were tasked to investigate. The result of the investigation seemed to clear St John's saying that the problem seemed to be caused by a call centre working on St John's Security's behalf ... now guess who the call centre belonged to!

I would also like to draw your attention to a security company, Sureshield/Brute Force Security, who are associated with Direct Response Security and St Johns Security, and are currently being investigated by Trading Standards at Bristol. They are companies that Regional Police Forces have had serious problems with in the past. They target older people and imply connections to Neighbourhood Watch, Group Four Security, the Police and Age Concern, offering a ‘free’ security system. There is a charge for the contract which may cost between £2,000 and £5,000. It is illegal for companies to offer police monitored alarm systems if they are not accredited or authorised to do so. Do not enter into any contract with a security company without taking advice as to their credibility first. You can contact Derek Barron, Alarms Manager, Wiltshire Police on 01380 734118 who holds a list of accredited alarm companies for advice.

Neighbourhood Watch Report

{Edit www.westwilts-communityweb.com/site/.../November%2008%20Word.doc }

There's a long history of this type of selling and it has never been properly dealt with either by NSCIA, NACOSS, NSI or latterly SSAIB.

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There was/is that other lot based in Stockport 'SAS', not sure if they are approved but its just same idea. Most of them came via direct response at one point, ex-sales staff etc setting up on their own.

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................As i work for an NSI gold company i have to ask myself how on earth can these sort of things happen and not be handled by the inspectorate. This must have been going on for some time. Im shocked to say this firm are an NSI silver firm (not gold i will add) but i will have to ask for comment from them as to what complaints etc have been recieved.

James

hmm.gifithis is either de' shar view, or i think this is where i came in? whistle.gif

only way to settle this - FIGHT!!!

new_rofl.gif

Arfur

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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just voicing my own personal opinion on this. I should stay impartial but its very difficult on this sort of subject.

sign.gif

Arfur

PS NSI

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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Whilst not as bad as Direct Response, here's an example of yet another, old, single pensioner being sold a system - SSAIB this time.

And no, they didn't even fit all the kit stated AND the two rooms in the bungalow most likely to get turned over have NO protection/detection.

Neither does he get Security Guard (as stated).

As for the terms and conditions, well...

CCI15062008_00001.pdf

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Just watched it on iplayer and I must say they are very interesting sales techniques, I might have to adopt some of them!! Seem to get results judging by the motors they are driving! :hmm: :hmm:

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no way do i align myself with these 'sales techniques' but unfortunately they are not the only company i've known to use them.

in or out of inspectorates i'm sure as trained and honest people we are totally appalled at most of the claims made, was this deliberate actions on the companies behalf, or simply poor training of or mis-understanding of Mr Hook?

many believe their system is connected direct to the Police not a monitoring station, they often think the monitoring station is a Police department so will come at a moments notice.

hand on heart folks, how many of you actually tell the client all about the confirmed signals and the ramifications to the delays caused in notifying the Police from Central Station? after all to get a URN you have to conform to it.

so the program, while it has done really well in bringing it to attention (how long have i been trying to do this in here now?), but then we all know the true facts and are indignant and angry.

unfortunately the public in general don't know the facts, and imo they were not explained properly in the show where the sales pitch was so very wrong, so ask what is the fuss all about?

just as they don't know or just don't care about the standard of work done on their homes by untrained jobbing labour, with alarms as long as it is an NSI/SSAIB company they can get an insurance reduction and Police response.

in paradox one claim Mr Hook (good old sea fairing name that) made, and being regarded as false of intrusions deeply affecting lives, causing splits, divorce, ill health and even suicide however is quite true, i know of at least very sad incidents where the depression after finding the home trashed, and not of feeling secure in their own home was to frightening to bare.

in effect that main plank accusation is wrong and unfortunately weakened the whole item.

Arfur

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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in effect that accusation is wrong and weakened the whole show item.

Arfur

at last someone else has actually watched the show, interesting how in the second house Matt Notbright jumped straight in rather than waiting for more proof of the "shocking" pitch .................. possibly because the guy didnt repeat it but the BBC had backed itself into a hole.

I`m pitching an idea to the Tvco. where we doorstep the presenters in car parks pointing out their broad brush reading of the regs in "rogue traders, meet Dom, beat the builders" etc.

Do you think they`ll buy it?

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i watch the show just for a Malinda smile moment.

imo she is an odd looking girl and not really beautiful, narrow forehead, small eyes, large jowl, but when she flashes a smile it measures in kilowatts, the poor sod she is scrounging materials from, just don't stand a chance lol!.

Arfur

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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arf.

i could of gone with the poor training or a rogue salesman if the company hadnt made a statement that neither they or mr hook had done nothing wrong.

I wonder if they interupted so early in the second house because they wernt ready and feared they had been rumbled.

I also think the boss handles it about as well as he could.

But if it was a one off why the trading std's etc findings previously?

James

ps

IAS are you saying that you dont think there was much wrong then in the first house?

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Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount.

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arf.

i could of gone with the poor training or a rogue salesman if the company hadnt made a statement that neither they or mr hook had done nothing wrong.

I wonder if they interupted so early in the second house because they wernt ready and feared they had been rumbled.

I also think the boss handles it about as well as he could.

But if it was a one off why the trading std's etc findings previously?

James

ps

IAS are you saying that you dont think there was much wrong then in the first house?

no, what I`m saying is please don`t just believe everything you see.

Matt - "we had a response saying "we did nothing wrong" but we don`t know what he was shown, do we?

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Guest RJBsec

But if it was a one off why the trading std's etc findings previously?

Exactly, as shown above, this company has been doing this and encouraging other companies linked with them to do the same for years.

No way is this a 'one-off' or a 'rogue salesman' ... this is their standard package!

Now don't tell me that there is anyone here who thinks the company has been misrepresented? :rolleyes:

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Now don't tell me that there is anyone here who thinks the company has been misrepresented? :rolleyes:

pray tell, what is your sales pitch - other than "have my alarm and not be ..........robbed, beaten or raped"

heck half of my customers call a panic button a "rape alarm"

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Guest RJBsec

pray tell, what is your sales pitch - other than "have my alarm and not be ..........robbed, beaten or raped"

Simple, to do so would open me up to serious legal action - an alarm cannot prevent anything, so I don't sell an alarm as a 'preventer'.

heck half of my customers call a panic button a "rape alarm"

Try a different user training approach.

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Guest RJBsec

You want to explain its purpose a bit better then.

Simple, an alarm is there to respond to something happening and to request some action depending on the nature of the signalling.

Never, ever use the words 'prevent' or 'protect' in a verbal or written sales pitch, quote or whatever.

At best an alarm may act as a deterrent, it can never be more.

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If you haven't heard of what this lot and the spin off companies have been doing for many years you must have been living under a rock.

I often think these programmes are one sided, but in this case it was clear cut and they are very well known for this type of thing.

Anyone who defends or tries to justify it is just as bad as them and in my book shouldn't be trading. There is a HUGE difference in pointing out risks and playing on peoples fear. If you have to stoop to those levels to gain business you are among the lowest of the low IMO.

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Whilst not as bad as Direct Response, here's an example of yet another, old, single pensioner being sold a system - SSAIB this time.

And no, they didn't even fit all the kit stated AND the two rooms in the bungalow most likely to get turned over have NO protection/detection.

Neither does he get Security Guard (as stated).

As for the terms and conditions, well...

They are not SSAIB though are they?

They just did SIA via SSAIB.

This is their youtube

http://www.youtube.com/user/B0SS955

Personaly i have no issue with what a company charges if the sales pitch was fair and the client knows the costs before hand, that is between the client and the company.

However taking advantage of vulnerable people is another matter.

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They are not SSAIB though are they?

They just did SIA via SSAIB.

This is their youtube

http://www.youtube.com/user/B0SS955

Personaly i have no issue with what a company charges if the sales pitch was fair and the client knows the costs before hand, that is between the client and the company.

However taking advantage of vulnerable people is another matter.

Splitting hairs somewhat.

Like i say, what the customer got, and gets, is not as quoted. Also, the T&Cs

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Splitting hairs somewhat.

Like i say, what the customer got, and gets, is not as quoted. Also, the T&Cs

I'm not commenting on the install as i'm sure you are correct, you have i guess seen the site.

I don't think its splitting hairs regarding SSAIB, there is a big difference in being SSAIB Approved for intruder and just choosing SSAIB as an agent to get SIA. They hold no SSAIB certification, just SIA.

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