arfur mo Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Classic, Nice get out. life's full of surprises one of the best bits of cheek - but not mine -: working for the same co i get called to a factory, client complains shortly after he arrives so do the Police and has happened several times. so i'm scratching my chin as i can see from the site card it's the local engineer has made several calls. so, back to basics and i go through the openning routine with the key holder, not unusual then for them to throw the key with dor open to find he actually enters thorough a side door which has a Chub Shunt Lock to cut out the door contact. pretty obviouse the Chubbs contact is not working properly. strips it down, cleans and adjusts now all tested and working ok. but as i'm leaving, the key-holder says to my astonishment - and i quote "please tell Dave (the local service engineer) he, the client was not imagining the Police turning up",. Gods honest truth that is exactelly what this Dave admited he had told him instead of fixing the fault grrrr!. how the heck he got away with that one i just don't know, but did i 'TELL HIM!'. Arfur If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 life's full of surprises one of the best bits of cheek - but not mine -: working for the same co i get called to a factory, client complains shortly after he arrives so do the Police and has happened several times. so i'm scratching my chin as i can see from the site card it's the local engineer has made several calls. so, back to basics and i go through the openning routine with the key holder, not unusual then for them to throw the key with dor open to find he actually enters thorough a side door which has a Chub Shunt Lock to cut out the door contact. pretty obviouse the Chubbs contact is not working properly. strips it down, cleans and adjusts now all tested and working ok. but as i'm leaving, the key-holder says to my astonishment - and i quote "please tell Dave (the local service engineer) he, the client was not imagining the Police turning up",. Gods honest truth that is exactelly what this Dave admited he had told him instead of fixing the fault grrrr!. how the heck he got away with that one i just don't know, but did i 'TELL HIM!'. Arfur Arf: I gotta say I think you did, from what i've seen you tell it as you see it. Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 mistake by armatures is very simple, move the lock to the correct position, fill the pocket and fit finger plates to cover the holes made in the wrong place for the keys, the plates actually enhanced the doors appearance. given thre grief i had to absorb i insisted the locky stayed and watched, making no light matter watching a true expert????? at work . i don't know if he ever got paid - i do know my firm did not pay his bill and got paid my time, i also know i got a £20 tip sweet! Arfur No locksmith or expert there then. Move the lockcase???? WTF and weaken the door. Why not move the striking plate in the door frame which can take a bit of extra cutting out and making good. Technical observation here, when you mortise a door for a lock you weaken the surrounding area hence the makers recommend a "snug fit". Chiselling out more timber makes it worse. Another reason why Lock guards were made and used! One more reason I know there was no locksmith or any carpenter of any degree there, that is after fitting the lockcase you mark off onto the frame the bolt position before cutting in the striking plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Another reason why Lock guards were made and used! whats a "lock guard" ? Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Metal plate to clamp the door around the lock, increases the door strength by about 1000% around the lock. Some examples. http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Lockguards.html We used to make them before every other git started to manufacture them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Metal plate to clamp the door around the lock, increases the door strength by about 1000% around the lock. Some examples. http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Lockguards.html We used to make them before every other git started to manufacture them! oh right'o I can honestly say I've never seen one ! thought you meant a template for router or something..... Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 1000% ? Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 We made them years ago and used to supply Aldridge before everyone started making them. Same as London Bars and Birmingham Bars. There are some lock "router template cutters" about. ACT Test Meters do one a copy I believe of Souber Tools ( Paul Souber was our sales rep before he went alone). However I have never rated them and cut my mortise in freehand. Ie with a 19mm drill and a hammer and chisel. Actually faster too if you know what your doing. Anyway, here`s a little one for you. On a job with another locksmith, he asked to use my chisels as his were in the car. He assumed they were like his and hit one very hard, it cut thru the door like it was butter and came out the side.................One free set of lockguards and no one the wiser and the door was actually stronger. his chisels were not only in his car but blunt as hell!!! Mine are always honed and as sharp as you can get, even now. Makes door contacts so easy to fit flush. 1000% ? Taken from a flyer, cannot find our old one, but it was over 25 yrs ago we were making these! Home Office statistics show that 71% of burglars target the doors of a property, usually by forcing a lock - October 2004. Until they've experienced a 'kick-in' burglary, most people aren't aware that chiselling and removing wood to fit locks will unavoidably result in much weakened door security. Because fitting most door locks involves removing wood, the weakened door or frame will split open around the locks and hinges during a forced attack or 'kick-in' burglary - unless extra measures are taken to strengthen the door by also fitting a London Bar, Birmingham Bar, Frame Guard, Hinge Guard or Lock Guard security device. Kickstops do not require locking, bolting or activating and therefore cannot be forgotten. They provide greatly enhanced physical strength and security constantly - each time the door is closed and locked. Kickstop products are not additional locking devices and are designed to reinforce and strengthen the door and the door frame around the existing locks and hinges. On improved security, the Metropolitan Police and other police forces recommend fitting various products including a London bar, Birmingham bar, a lockguard kit, frameguard and hinge guard. For several years now, Target Hardening programmes throughout Britian have used Kickstops - to great effect. Taking 100% as a factor of 1. 1000% = 10 times stronger at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 thanks for the maths lesson, it meant a lot, just struggled to see a 10 fold increase. best door you can get seems to be a council house uPvc one, the rozzers struggle like feck to batter them in, the bounce factor always makes me lol Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 thanks for the maths lesson, it meant a lot, just struggled to see a 10 fold increase. You have to see it in action to see the added strength. We did a council estate and when finished the crime rate for " kick in" burglary was reduced 98%. It was this that started the phrase " Target Hardening". The then Home Secretary visited us and praised the works completed. There were also write ups in national papers and Harpers and Queen for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Metal plate to clamp the door around the lock, increases the door strength by about 1000% around the lock. Some examples. http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Lockguards.html We used to make them before every other git started to manufacture them! You learn something new on here everyday, nice site thanks. Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 You learn something new on here everyday, nice site thanks. Mega expensive though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Got his IP already Cubit, bill is in the post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Mega expensive though Point taken, did'nt take too much notice of the prices when I looked earlier. Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Point taken, did'nt take too much notice of the prices when I looked earlier. Clearly the oil business still doing well at that end of Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Got his IP already Cubit, bill is in the post Can you stick Ted in with him as well? Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Got his IP already Cubit, bill is in the post To be fair, a very useful website for finding out about locks n stuff. Just too blooody pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Clearly the oil business still doing well at that end of Wales. Nah it's Sheep in this area, oils down the bottom end. Oh God with you lot should I have said that? Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Nah it's Sheep in this area, oils down the bottom end. Oh God with you lot should I have said that? Keep up in the cheap seats. Check their location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 No locksmith or expert there then. hey, remmember one thing before you knock me, i'd not employ this idiot but hmmm! North London Bounds green arae - it wasn it YOU by any chance was i then? "Move the lockcase???? WTF and weaken the door. Why not move the striking plate in the door frame which can take a bit of extra cutting out and making good. Technical observation here, when you mortise a door for a lock you weaken the surrounding area hence the makers recommend a "snug fit". Chiselling out more timber makes it worse." well this is where you ave made an assumption - the seriously wrong one mechanically and practically for this situation. the door was a very expensive solid beech sourced from Italy of all places, and why all the fuss was made when the 2nd one went tits up. the frame was original of some other wood but in much weaker condition, as being original in an older 1910's house had other previous locks and subsequent patch repairs made (i think why a new door was installed due to warping). The frame was also fairly thin with glass panels either side - so, without even seeing it you as an expert locksmith wold advise blindly anyone to remove even more material from this frame? if so then your a much braver or foolhardy man than me gungerdin. Another reason why Lock guards were made and used! you said it WTF? not required and/or ordered by the client and out of the alarm co's remit. One more reason I know there was no locksmith or any carpenter of any degree there, that is after fitting the lockcase you mark off onto the frame the bolt position before cutting in the striking plate. i hope you exclude m here, i was Chubb Trained so otherwise i'd agree, but i did not do ANY of the lock fitting attempts, i was actually refused in favour of the so called locksmith so whats yor point? i do respect your knowledge which in general about locks, grills and safes etc, but when it comes down to Chubb locks used with alarm systems, and what goes wrong in relation to them you are simply no where near my own level of experince. while you have no doubt attended many locks badly instralled or worn, most all the lock problems i have attent were directly due to others mistakes or misuse. the alarm co get the 1st call as its them who have the 24 hour servie contract - not the lock smith from yellow paes. if the alarm won't set/unset as the door is on he alarm system so the alarm co not the YP locksmith gets called out it is us have a 24 hour service and the lock had the Chubb name on it. i even got called out to Chubb safes and jammed vaults, imagine me armed with my neon screwdriver trying to open one of them? Arfur If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 oh dear oh dear Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 i do respect your knowledge which in general about locks, grills and safes etc, but when it comes down to Chubb locks used with alarm systems, and what goes wrong in relation to them you are simply no where near my own level of experince. What is it they say? Self praise is no praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 My point was the lock was fitted incorrectly, then the remedial works lacking. Did I mention you in my reply personally? Let me know where I did please. Back to the door in question, even more so to move the strike and make the frame stronger than mess up an expensive bit of wood. You say they patched up a solid Beech door.................muppets. Again you try and cast dispersions on my skill set to yours. Again you assume your better. I especially like your mention of your visits due to the alarm being faulty due to the lock fitments and yet boast how good Chubb fitters and yourself are/were. Yet all these call outs......................I think I dont have to point out the "shot self in foot syndrome" to anyone. I like the mention of yellow pages,shame we never used them at the time I was with the Locksmiths/Alarm company I trained at. We had no need. I am glad you "respect" my skill set and in the same sentence try to discredit me. You missed out on several items my "trade" covers. You will of course remember I specialise in security, not play with it whilst fitting a bit of cat5 and telephones. You will find in that case my "limited" field of knowledge probably exceeds yours by leaps and bounds. Yet I do not have to shout it all about and make insidious comments about others. Perhaps next time you will read a post correctly, ingest the contents before making snide comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alarm Protection Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Your an angry man Oxo! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alterEGO Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 To be fair, a very useful website for finding out about locks n stuff. Just too blooody pricey. I found them to be useless. In the end i had to track down the lever pad handle i wanted myself, ended up getting it from the people who build the doors, they bought direct from Yale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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