Rob Kirk

Just started fitting enforcers now, seem much better than *****sonic.

Hope you find somewhere cushty soon peter. Loads of fire engineer jobs in the city i keep noticing but might not be your area.

Worst thing for me is we was given the regs in college in bundles of photocopies intruder fire and cctv i had two big folders full of them, threw them out when i got my certs and now i wish i hadn't now I've gone on my own. Got me thinking how often do company owners on here pay for the new regs? expensive stuff if you have to buy them every update.

I agree, and yes i was wrong in my understanding but the last time i port forwarded was for my dads cctv system in around 07 I've not installed many dvrs in houses. since then he's upgraded to a plug and play system that doesn't need port forwarding and i have to, I'm not that clued up on cctv to be honest but these new plug and play systems that dont need port forwarding would they be on a vpn? if not are they safe?

Surely unless you are a skilled hacker a password protected dvr with random port is enough to stop the amateur? That is safe enough not to have to scare the customer into saying you are compromising there routers security. Also i thought that again unless highly skilled the only access an open port gives is to the connected dvr or whatever is connected to that port again with the password it wouldn't even give access to the dvr. Also the hacker has to know the type of dvr and the port it is using along with the password etc. Type into google hacking port cctv and you see people getting into office systems and supermarkets because they know the type of systems and are skilled/determined for something to do but i can't see them wanting to go through a list of ip's randomly testing for open ports? unless they have software to scan for such weaknesses I'm no expert so this could be the case one day.

HI

lol i agree the customers I've been getting are what people describe as the above but at least its a nice steady stream of work for now and I'm getting my name about. Also with the more respect for higher prices thats exactly what my dad reckoned. Anyways i think ill leave the push fit plumbing to al yeti for now...

Yeah when i was there i found its more of a jolly up for all the execs and surveyors.

Im fitting kits from visonic and adding 40 each detector making 120 from each install, yes its peanuts but I've just signed with gardiner and they are letting me have a online account via cash account. The prices are still dear enough with switching to enforcer wireless gear to make it not as attractive to people when promoting an offer is all I was trying to say but I'm just going to have to do it to offer better quality and security. Sorry to sound miserable in my last post I've had a terrible virus the past few weeks and that was in the middle of it, makes you appreciate your health more once you start becoming better

Everyone has to start their business somewhere, so with all the flaming my last post was getting (i assume it was me) Please tell me how i am meant to start up without fitting gear that will end up costing the same as every other company is charging. I feel i need to undercut for now to get a start and a customer base going. I make sure all my customers are happy and have a grade 2 reliable alarm (yes i know some houses require grade 3). I mainly fit wireless one way at the moment (queue flamage) but plan to move to pyronix or hkc very soon, all I'm saying is its hard to start with pricey gear when leafleting/marketing a new company. See how many calls you get when selling at normal prices with a new business leafleting like I'm doing...Yes its hurting the industry if everyone was at it but i dont plan to do it forever. What is hurting the industry is people with absouloutley no idea cold calling fitting yales from a car. Wireless is here to stay and dont get me wrong i plan to fit wired/hybrid more soon but its tonnes easier for me atm to fit wireless. I just wanted to start like this see the response and then go up. Flame away guys :/

Thanks guys so as long as one has the regs and follows all the test procedures as well as filling in minor works cert you can get away with fitting fuse spurs? I know this threads been going on forever i just want to be able to fit them myself in domestics without worrying or it looking like it vulnerable on a plug!

petercts Inbox me peter if you want to know a really good company i used to work for who i think are always on the hunt. they are near london/essex border.

Sorry to keep hounding on about this but just want to know where the average joe who has fitted fuse spurs stands. on reading this it seems that you do not have to test the circuit and do not have to notify building control.....just simply make sure you are using the correct rated appliance for the circuit (which with alarm equipment is always going to be ok unless spurring off a cooker circuit which no-one would do anyway.) And it not being in a special area. Oh and obviously you follow iee 7671 and use the correct rated cable. The last bullet point and also number 6 refer to fuse spurs. Q5: What types of electrical work are 'non-notifiable'? The following types of work are non-notifiable: Replacing accessories such as socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, for example, by fire, rodent or impact (1) Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components (2) Providing mechanical protection to existing fixed installations (3) Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding (4) Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation (5) and consists of: - adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit (6) - adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit (6) Notes: (1) On condition that the replacement cable has the same current-carrying capacity, follows the same route and does not serve more than one sub-circuit through a distribution board; (2) If the circuit's protective measures are unaffected; (3) If the circuit's protective measures and current-carrying capacity of conductors are unaffected by increased thermal insulation; (4) Such work shall comply with other applicable legislation, such as the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations; (5) Special locations and installations are listed below; (6) Only if the existing circuit protective device is suitable and provides protection for the modified circuit, and other relevant safety provisions are satisfactory.

Thank you Peter

Measure the Zs at the socket you're going to spur off, R1 + R2 for the new spur cable, IR new cable, connect up, Zs at end (compare reading to socket + new cable) and do i need to fill out one of these? https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Niceic/BKIMM6_Specimen.pdf Seems there is no clear guide for the average installer on weather or not its ok to fit one and how to test certify etc....

Well as a sole trader I've been leafleting and undercutting my local competition with good results and after 6 months the work has been constant but only targeting houses and not making much at all on each job (days wage here and there and thats it). I have had no business plan but I'm in the very fortunate position i have income from elsewhere otherwise i would not be able to do this at all - It would be back to being a service engineer! Its not easy at all, you need to be prepared to not make ends meet until you get ssaib and the bigger jobs as someone else stated which I feel I'm not ready for yet even though i have had 10 years in the trade and started as an apprentice. Im only doing it to stay busy but it is agro being a sole trader in this game I'm not looking forward now to what the ssaib may bring into my life.

I agree! the express panels are the worst for it, a few times I've had them barely readable!

Thanks simlec!! Would one have to be a registered competent person with elecsa if you do not want to get the work checked by someone else? I have completed my electrical principles when i did my alarm apprenticeship and have fitted many many spurs just wondered if that would deem me competent without being registered by money grabbing eleccsa

Please quote the regs exactly...found this on a spark forum: Hi Thank you for your replies. andyc, I realise it is a long answer, would you say in a nutshell that it is illegall for your average security Engineer to fit a 230 volt fused spur to an existing electrical system ? From what I have read a " competent person " means having experience of electrical installations , have sufficient test equipment, etc.. Thank you clive sorts Hello clive... welcome to the forum Guiness Drink just been reading through the thread.. and I don't think any actually directly answered this question, so just to clarify. NO it is NOT illegal for a non qualified person to add a fused spur onto an electrical circuit. BS7671 wiring regs is guidance for good practise NOT a statutory document. Part P building regulation is a statutory document.. but that applies to work in Kitchens, bathrooms, gardens, new circuits, new fuse box & similar. Your "average" alarm system on fused spur, connected to an existing circuit, in the cupboard under the stairs can quite legally be wired up by anyone! even the Spanish exchange student, who is baby sitting the children!!! But as Deke said ... You as an employer would have statutory obligation under H&S @ work, thus you cannot insist you staff install a fused spur unless they are suitably qualified & trained. This would most likely be someone of sufficient knowledge to correctly complete a "minor works" electrical certificate in accordance with BS7671, and have a suitably calibrated test meter to verify the work is safe. Another option you may want to consider is giving the customer a standard letter, advising them to organise the installation of a fused spur within 300mm of where the Alarm is due to be installed. Recommend they use an approved contractor such as a member of:- NICEIC, ELECSA, ECA, BSI etc.. & if they do-not provide a spur give a standard value to cover the cost,, (e.g. So i take that to mean you have to be able to issue a minor works certificate which is basically part p??????? Still very unclear but it looks like to be on the safe side you would at least need part p.

From what i can make of this thread as long as you are competent you can fit a (unswitched) fuse spur only off of an existing loop i.e. a double or single socket somewhere (not kitchen or bathroom) as long as you follow the regulations. The firm i used to work for all the install guys would fit fuse spurs and none were sparks. As long as you are competent and have knowledge of the regs and dont wire straight into a consumer unit. Let me know if I'm wrong as it seems to be controversial what with all the sparks getting jealous

Im waiting to be trade full member too, very eager to become as I'm just starting out on my own after 10 years in the trade as an apprentice / service engineer. I understand i dont post too regularly but i always try to keep up to date with stuff and check in/post at least once a week without fail, would love to see what trade advice there is on ssaib/nsi etc. Anyways submitted a trade member application a few weeks back with two forms of proof as well as my nvq 2 and 3 certs in security systems but haven't heard anything back yet i know it said there was a vetting process i appreciate that.

Does anyone know the regs on key fob setting? Grade 2 domestics only if I recall?

Would love that guide was posted up as i too want to know heights and distances of detectors from walls/beams etc.

welcome, whereabouts in essex out of interest. I'm epping forest.....as you might be able to decipher hehe

Glad it has, would like to go this year as it was a nice experience when i was an apprentice, anyone here done the apprentice skills challenge? i think i took part in the 06 one. Done miserably as you had to wire a booth with 3 detectors and setup a redcare gsm in about 20 minutes! i dont think i even got the lids on the trunking let alone progging up a redcare gsm which back in the day was about 40 steps haha