mcelec Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 no P clips - must be fixed using plastic coated copper clips.Oh,and no more tie wrapping to cable trays or down conduits!!! 49429[/snapback] P clips are copper clips that you have to screw to the service, they take there name from the fact they wrap around the cable and form what looks like the letter P i can honestly say i have never tie wrapped fire alarm cables down conduit, only because it looks awful and temporary and if the conduit is moved or altered then you need to clip it anyway. the other thing to note is you cant just use plastic trunking as a form of containment, if you do use it you should still put a couple of P clips inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.J.M Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 the other thing to note is you cant just use plastic trunking as a form of containment, if you do use it you should still put a couple of P clips inside 49461[/snapback] tis true.Same applies to trunking.I use buckle clips inside trunking. I think if you used metal sadlles with pvc conduit it may be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cerberus NI Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 P clips are copper clips that you have to screw to the service, they take there name from the fact they wrap around the cable and form what looks like the letter Pi can honestly say i have never tie wrapped fire alarm cables down conduit, only because it looks awful and temporary and if the conduit is moved or altered then you need to clip it anyway. the other thing to note is you cant just use plastic trunking as a form of containment, if you do use it you should still put a couple of P clips inside 49461[/snapback] I know thats what P clips are (say what you see,as Roy Walker says) but if I ask a sparky to use P clips he thinks I mean the nail in cable clips!Dunno why as they ae more lower case h-clips!! I have seen on numerous occassions cables tie wrapped up and down cable tay supports where the detector is on the ceiling. You are very defensive to anything which appears to criticise electicians and rightfully so but this thread and subsequent answers have proved that there is confusion and a lack of knowledge out there.Most obvious is where you go to site to hook in the link to an ARC and there it is - white 6 core!!!Or a detector that is a gland length from the wallA right pain but indicates the value of this site as a means of keeping people informed and up to scratch - it isn't (and shouldn't be) an opportunity bash-the-sparky or intruder engineer (or the fire engineer - heaven forbid!! ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcelec Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 the reason why im defensive of comments regarding electricians is because a lot of people on here seem to always come to the conclusion that electricians cant install fire alarm systems but intruder engineers can, the truth is that its a specialist subject and should only be attempted by people with the relevent skills and knowledge which many electricians and intruder engineers do not have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secboy Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 the reason why im defensive of comments regarding electricians is because a lot of people on here seem to always come to the conclusion that electricians cant install fire alarm systems but intruder engineers can, the truth is that its a specialist subject and should only be attempted by people with the relevent skills and knowledge which many electricians and intruder engineers do not have 49515[/snapback] In my experience with site work it is more usuall to see a qualified electrician include in his porfolio the task of fire alarm installation and maintenance,they have a more solid training in cable regulations and method compliance than the security trade which seems to concentrate more on equipment type installation and installing in a way to keep the NACOSS inspector happy with what he see's!!!!,before any one jumps down my throat for saying this I relise that it does not apply accross the board but as a generalisation I believe to be more correct than not ?? Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.J.M Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 In my experience with site work it is more usuall to see a qualified electrician include in his porfolio the task of fire alarm installation and maintenance,they have a more solid training in cable regulations and method compliance than the security trade which seems to concentrate more on equipment type installation and installing in a way to keep the NACOSS inspector happy with what he see's!!!!,before any one jumps down my throat for saying this I relise that it does not apply accross the board but as a generalisation I believe to be more correct than not ?? Paul. 49746[/snapback] i don't have a problem with sparks installing fire alarms as long as they are competant. arguments for both sides and i have seen some really botched jobs by them but i have also seen really neat installs too. alot of fire and intruder engineers were or still are sparks. i have seen some really shocking work as well from supposed fire engineers. there are John Waynes in every trade.yeeehaa. especially plumbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyboy Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 i don't have a problem with sparks installing fire alarms as long as they are competant.arguments for both sides and i have seen some really botched jobs by them but i have also seen really neat installs too. alot of fire and intruder engineers were or still are sparks. i have seen some really shocking work as well from supposed fire engineers. there are John Waynes in every trade.yeeehaa. especially plumbers  49748[/snapback] i work for a nacoss gold company,we install intruder alarms and fire alarms. i started 4 years ago, ive never been given any traning on installing either. my first ever fire alarm job was a 8 zone panel in a rest home, which i was given having never fitted a fire alarm, in fact id never even changed a smoke head.my company never informs us of british standards . it is only me reading up on regs that has enabled me to install to british standards.from my experience people think that because your headed paper has got nacoss on it you are good at all aspects of security, which is a load of rubbish. all nacoss care about is paper work. i talked to an inspector once about meter readings and he said he didnt care what was written down as long as there where a few different numbers there. the same applies when fire alarms get checked, as long as the detectors are in the right place they take no notice of anything else Trade Intruder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.J.M Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 I agree with you on NACOSS. There is a really shocking couple of security companies in my area who's work you would have to see to believe. These guys have been struck off a police register,install shoddy and dangerous systems and have no trained guys. They don't have a kit to test fire alarms and yet they are NACOSS Gold I am sure that one company's MD is on the local board of NACOSS. Funny That. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 I agree with you on NACOSS.There is a really shocking couple of security companies in my area who's work you would have to see to believe. These guys have been struck off a police register,install shoddy and dangerous systems and have no trained guys. They don't have a kit to test fire alarms and yet they are NACOSS Gold I am sure that one company's MD is on the local board of NACOSS. Funny That. 49999[/snapback] I have already admitted NACOSS installers are better equipped for maintenance and elecs are better for install with regard to fire. In my opinion for what its worth i wouldn Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morph Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 I agree with you on NACOSS.There is a really shocking couple of security companies in my area who's work you would have to see to believe. These guys have been struck off a police register,install shoddy and dangerous systems and have no trained guys. They don't have a kit to test fire alarms and yet they are NACOSS Gold I am sure that one company's MD is on the local board of NACOSS. Funny That. 49999[/snapback] Which company has been struck off, because I like Jeff find it hard to believe that any company has been removed from an inspectorate approved list and the fact publiscised. If your suggesting that the Police operate a list of approved installers this is also wrong, Lothian and borders dont Reccomend Installers, they suggest that you get an Installer who is approved by an Acpo Acceptable Inspectorate. I also agree that generally that intruder alarm installers do not have a wide enough skill base to install Fire alarms and generally when they do install the installation will not comply with the standards. This falls back to the first couple of years where an electrician learns basic cable and electrical installation techniques. Unless the inspectorate providing certification has inspectors with actual real world expierience of Fire Alarm installations, they will also not have the skills required to accurately assess the standard of installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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