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Tc/ip Door Access (Paxton)

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Hi Guys,

 

I'm no networking expert and so would appreciate a bit of guidance.

 

I have this afternoon been passed a enquiry from a electrical company for whom we do a lot of work, they have fitted 20 Paxton Net 2+ TC/IP devices, basically they have asked the data company to provide a data point to each unit which they have however they have reached the point where the job is at handover and don't know how to make it work, they have approached us but I'm not over familiar myself.

 

Looking at the manual it says that each point connects to the LAN (POE) at present each data line is just wired back to a port in the cab and no switching is installed.

 

So question is whats involved, do we just need to get a 24 port POE switch, patch each of the ports to this and then connect the computer running the paxton software to this? is it that simple or am I missing something?

 

Next question, what is the difference between managed and unmanaged switches?

 

And last does anyone know where I can get a cheap 24 port switch with POE that will work?

 

Sorry one more question is there any good courses for networking, is it worth getting some of ourengineers to do a CISCO course and if so any recommendations?

 

Thanks

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You will still need a router the switch will not give out the IP's

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You will still need a router the switch will not give out the IP's

 

Pardon my ignorance Peter, any chance you could post a link to a suitable router? 

 

so basically we need a router & also the 24 port poe switch?

 

and connects like this......

 

each unit connects to a port.....the port is patched to the poe switch......the pc is patched to the poe switch......and the router is patched to the poe switch?

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And brace yourself for a bill. Especially if they are running mag locks over the poe.

 

24 port PoE switches capable of handling that don't come cheap.

 

Standard smart switch will do but these don't usually come in 24 port full PoE format.

If you do need managed, i think you may be heading for some pain.


"Bother!", said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

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Still struggling for a answer.

 

At present I have 20 controllers, what do I need to make them work?

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As long as you have a network point and 230v at each door location you wont have a problem, if as you say the data co have installed the points then just get them to patch through, then just install the software and program.


Pete Bennett

Northern CCTV Services

T: 0845 838 7383

E: info@northern-cctv.co.uk

www.northern-cctv.co.uk

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As long as you have a network point and 230v at each door location you wont have a problem, if as you say the data co have installed the points then just get them to patch through, then just install the software and program.

 

I Have only been asked to look at this today, basically our client have installed the kit NET 2+ devices, the data company have installed the points however then come back to them today to and told them they need to provide switching etc....so our client has asked if we can help and Im keen to do so but we have told him it is not something we specialise in, it is already giving me a headache 

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Personally if you are using the customers network as supplied by the data co then its down to them to patch and route all of the door controllers, if you are or your client have run your 'own' network for the access control then yes you will have to switch and route yourself but from what you said in your original post your on the customers network.


Pete Bennett

Northern CCTV Services

T: 0845 838 7383

E: info@northern-cctv.co.uk

www.northern-cctv.co.uk

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When you say computer. Is this a going to be a standalone network or part of the corporate network, also, is interweb connectivity required?

Pedders beat me to it.

 

If standalone, you can avoid the Router and use fixed IP.

Edited by Cubit

"Bother!", said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

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As long as you have a network point and 230v at each door location you wont have a problem, if as you say the data co have installed the points then just get them to patch through, then just install the software and program.

above is correct, no POE switch is needed for this.

Paxton offer a free 1 day training course, which is well worth it. tbh i'd get one of your guys to go do it. Paxton also offer support over the phone, so your best option really is to contact them direct over your concerns for clear advice.

TBH nothing is really that difficult with exception of planning out all the clients needs, groups of user and initial setting up the computer, the basic software is free, but the fancier one gets expensive

just don't panic, and you can download plenty of info from their site.

afaik you won't need a router, switches or hubs, while they use network cable for interconnection, the controllers are addressable (so think of it as like addressable fire alarms), if powering locks your best advised to use separate AC/DC power supplies, and not the controllers supplies to reduce any spiking or Rfi noise from causing glitches.


If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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Personally if you are using the customers network as supplied by the data co then its down to them to patch and route all of the door controllers, if you are or your client have run your 'own' network for the access control then yes you will have to switch and route yourself but from what you said in your original post your on the customers network.

From what I gather they have just fitted the controllers and plugged them in to data points wired by others.

 

When you say computer. Is this a going to be a standalone network or part of the corporate network, also, is interweb connectivity required?

Pedders beat me to it.

 

If standalone, you can avoid the Router and use fixed IP.

It will be standalone, whatever is the easiest solution to make it work, if this is the case I just need a 24 port POE switch?

 

 

above is correct, no POE switch is needed for this.

Paxton offer a free 1 day training course, which is well worth it. tbh i'd get one of your guys to go do it. Paxton also offer support over the phone, so your best option really is to contact them direct over your concerns for clear advice.

TBH nothing is really that difficult with exception of planning out all the clients needs, groups of user and initial setting up the computer, the basic software is free, but the fancier one gets expensive

just don't panic, and you can download plenty of info from their site.

afaik you won't need a router, switches or hubs, while they use network cable for interconnection, the controllers are addressable (so think of it as like addressable fire alarms), if powering locks your best advised to use separate AC/DC power supplies, and not the controllers supplies to reduce any spiking or Rfi noise from causing glitches.

 

The controllers are NET 2+ TCP/IP the paxton guides say POE is required, I have done paxton Net 2 before and just learn them on using the ACU codes, however the NET 2+ are TCP/IP so a different beast all together 

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They do, do a POE version but, i'm guessing that the sparky co have installed mains to each location, if you can find that info out then thats half the battle, and as Arf said 'just dont panic'


Pete Bennett

Northern CCTV Services

T: 0845 838 7383

E: info@northern-cctv.co.uk

www.northern-cctv.co.uk

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From what I gather they have just fitted the controllers and plugged them in to data points wired by others.

 

It will be standalone, whatever is the easiest solution to make it work, if this is the case I just need a 24 port POE switch?

 

 

 

The controllers are NET 2+ TCP/IP the paxton guides say POE is required, I have done paxton Net 2 before and just learn them on using the ACU codes, however the NET 2+ are TCP/IP so a different beast all together

then i stand corrected - been better to call it Net 3, my bad i missed the + bit tbh. had thought they were using POE only on their door entry kit, i din't think they will actually supply them though.


If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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above is correct, no POE switch is needed for this.

Paxton offer a free 1 day training course, which is well worth it. tbh i'd get one of your guys to go do it. Paxton also offer support over the phone, so your best option really is to contact them direct over your concerns for clear advice.

TBH nothing is really that difficult with exception of planning out all the clients needs, groups of user and initial setting up the computer, the basic software is free, but the fancier one gets expensive

just don't panic, and you can download plenty of info from their site.

afaik you won't need a router, switches or hubs, while they use network cable for interconnection, the controllers are addressable (so think of it as like addressable fire alarms), if powering locks your best advised to use separate AC/DC power supplies, and not the controllers supplies to reduce any spiking or Rfi noise from causing glitches.

Errrr.

Based on the OP and information gleaned i'd say a PoE switch is required - if only to power the Net2 units as it seems they may well be the PoE variant.


"Bother!", said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

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just mention to o/p, make sure all ports are POE, many say they are POE but not say it is not on all ports, seems usually only half are.


If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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just mention to o/p, make sure all ports are POE, many say they are POE but not say it is not on all ports, seems usually only half are.

Hence my comment about the cost. A decent one is circa £200 for 195 watts. And hence the question of how they are running the locks. 20 maglocks? over PoE is gonna need more than  a standard switch.


"Bother!", said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

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Errrr.

Based on the OP and information gleaned i'd say a PoE switch is required - if only to power the Net2 units as it seems they may well be the PoE variant.

i was going by the kit on a recent job, i was not actually involved with it but needed info regarding interfacing the alarm. each controller was in a metal box and had its own PSU, that being the case i can't see why would POE be needed? but then it might not be the net2+ kit.

you would know why better than me why, but seems PoE is a strange way to go fir access control, makes for very expensive add on's imho.

Hence my comment about the cost. A decent one is circa £200 for 195 watts. And hence the question of how they are running the locks. 20 maglocks? over PoE is gonna need more than  a standard switch.

and 4 core 10 amp FP200 lol!

no, must be additional supplies - must?


If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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Paxton do 4 by 2A POE PSU's.

IIRC there called extension switches, basically a 5 port POE switch.

 

It depends on the layout of the installation to what's best.

 

You can use Net2+ units and power them from a local power supply AFAIK.

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i was going by the kit on a recent job, i was not actually involved with it but needed info regarding interfacing the alarm. each controller was in a metal box and had its own PSU, that being the case i can't see why would POE be needed? but then it might not be the net2+ kit.

you would know why better than me why, but seems PoE is a strange way to go fir access control, makes for very expensive add on's imho.

Can make it cheaper. BUT, devil is in the detail. Unfortunately for OP he's coming to the install after everyone has done their bit, without it seems, communicating to each other or having a plan.

 

If PoE is only needed for the Controllers, then c£200 for a fully PoE 24 port managed switch will cover it - no need to worry about the managed switch, aart from perhaps changing it's default IP address.

On the other hand, if no thought to power has been given, and i haven't read anything indicating such, then there may be a much bigger cost to be paid.


"Bother!", said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

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As mentioned in post 12, check that mains has been installed at each door location, if it has then that rules out the need for a net2 poe ACU, if there is then  the units are Net2+ then patch the network port from the ACU to the supplied point by the data co, program and enjoy!


Pete Bennett

Northern CCTV Services

T: 0845 838 7383

E: info@northern-cctv.co.uk

www.northern-cctv.co.uk

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Can make it cheaper. BUT, devil is in the detail. Unfortunately for OP he's coming to the install after everyone has done their bit, without it seems, communicating to each other or having a plan.

If PoE is only needed for the Controllers, then c£200 for a fully PoE 24 port managed switch will cover it - no need to worry about the managed switch, aart from perhaps changing it's default IP address.

On the other hand, if no thought to power has been given, and i haven't read anything indicating such, then there may be a much bigger cost to be paid.

Sage words, i also share your fears. Sort of job you go in to help, and risk catching a right cold all the blanm for your efforts imho Edited by arfur mo

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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As mentioned in post 12, check that mains has been installed at each door location, if it has then that rules out the need for a net2 poe ACU, if there is then  the units are Net2+ then patch the network port from the ACU to the supplied point by the data co, program and enjoy!

That would be the ideal scenario.

 

However, there are plenty of specs out there where they think everything will run over PoE so some bright spark does away with with local power - money saved, or so they think.

Bit that puzzles me is who installed the Access System and why connectivity (and power) seems to have not being considered


"Bother!", said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

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Im not disagreeing with you Cubit at all mate, but im thinking that if the 'sparky co' are going cheap they wont go for a POE acu.

 

No one is correct until mcelec has a pop down to site and sees whats installed, and when he does he will wonder why he was so worried :)


Pete Bennett

Northern CCTV Services

T: 0845 838 7383

E: info@northern-cctv.co.uk

www.northern-cctv.co.uk

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Im not disagreeing with you Cubit at all mate, but im thinking that if the 'sparky co' are going cheap they wont go for a POE acu.

 

No one is correct until mcelec has a pop down to site and sees whats installed, and when he does he will wonder why he was so worried :)

Just read again, twas indeed the sparks who fitted it. (that would worry me lol)


"Bother!", said Pooh, as he found his smack had talc in it.

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Thanks everyone for the input, I will get more info tomorrow and keep you all posted

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Right bit of a update guys, basically the electrical contractor was asked to supply and fit 18 Net 2+ door entry units which are POE.

 

The contractor was informed that all data wiring would be done by others, with very little understanding of networking (even less than me) they went ahead fitted the handsets etc and then got asked about the switching!

 

They then asked us I had a brief look in to switch 2+ yesterday, and posted on here last night and got a bit of info.

 

This morning I spoke with them and found out the present situation, I have ordered a 24 port poe switch from CPC and one of our engineers is going to have a crack at it Monday, fingers crossed it should be straight forward, I will keep you all posted.

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