james.wilson Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 IMO no. FOr years they have been pushing the security industry into insisting on grade 3 for most risks, as another not listened to body IPCRES did before. Plus due to the BER they are no longer permitted to use brand names such as Redcare etc they created / updated a guidance document entitled LPS 1277. This was to be the standard all communcation systems are tested against and approval should mean insurance acceptance. But the insurance world do not listen to this Body. Below is an example of the mis infomation provided by insurers to end users. Hi xxxxx, I had a conversation yesterday with the underwriter who had spoken to one of their senior surveyors regarding Webwayone. He has come across the system before and is somewhat sceptical about it. Because there is no telephone line, you are reliant on the internet. If this crashes you only have GPS signalling to rely on which sometimes can only access certain areas of the building, so you could have a break-in in part of the building and the alarm wouldn’t be activated. Where stock is not very theft attractive and premises are situated in the centre of a large city where signalling strength is high, Webwayone could work, but for you with the kind of stock you hold, insurers wouldn’t be happy with this system. The surveyor did comment that there shouldn’t be an issue with Redcare interference on the phone line as in the main it’s usually on a separate line. The new Dual Comm systems (CPS & CPL)are an alternative to Redcare and again use a separate phone line. I appreciate this is probably not what you wanted to hear but hopefully there are other options for you – have the alarm company found an issue with having a separate line? If I can be of any more help let me know. Mike and I are on holiday from tomorrow returning 4th June so if you need any thing else after close of play tomorrow, my colleague Jayne xxxxx can assist- xxxxxxxxxx. Regards This occured because the client wanted to move away from redcare classic and leave BT. We offered a webway GPRS/PSTN unit and this is what we got back.It is imo a joke and potentially damaging to my relationship with our client as we as the 'experts' are offering a better product / solution than they currently have with redcare classic and the insurer is advising the client to have a lesser system than they currently have. Can other members post similar letter, i have others that ill post and we can create a thread just with those in. Ta securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 That is a ******* disgrace! www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccbrennan Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Thanks for pointing this out. We would urge all installers to push back on these statements. This is a particularly extreme case in that it has no basis in fact. The upshot of not pushing back is that the insurers total lack of understanding is actually reinforced. You are in control. Standards like LPS1277 put you in that control position and you have a choice. Our industry has to stop the proliferation of amateur views on complex technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 He hadn't heard of lps 1277 securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I've had similar and when pushed back they have always backed down, but the point being there shouldn't even be the discussion. It maybe no secret that I'm a webway and Chiron fan but I've no issue whatsoever if there are 20 manufacturers selling signalling systems as long as they are 3rd party approved and they meet a grade. It is then free choice just in the same way as we have with every other kit we install. Can you image the discust if insurers started sending out a requirement that the panel must be Honeywell galaxy and the detectors must be Aritech. No one would stand for it but it seems in the signaling arena this rubbish has been tolerated for far too long. He hadn't heard of lps 1277 That's just like a mechanic not knowing what a spark plug is. If he's in the insurance world, its his job to to know. www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Is there not a possible case of negligence here on the part of the broker - certainly if an incident occurred on his recommendation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Is there not a possible case of negligence here on the part of the broker - certainly if an incident occurred on his recommendation? Not thought of that angle. As his statement contains more inaccuracies than an MPs expense sheet, surely it is wrongful advice? Don't know many signalling devices using GPS for example. A few Tom toms but no Redcares. www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 To be fair to the broker they are just passing info from us to this risk surveyor. I'm sure the actual insurer covering the actual risk would be concerned they have a surveyor in their employ increasing their risks not reducing them securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Not thought of that angle. As his statement contains more inaccuracies than an MPs expense sheet, surely it is wrongful advice? Don't know many signalling devices using GPS for example. A few Tom toms but no Redcares. Perhaps the broker would be more comfortable with comms being sent via tom toms (drums) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 I suppose if there is 2 its dual path signalling of sorts. Add in a fire and its triple path securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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