sjsturner Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 think outside of the box young man - well at least outside of your solder joints . in short (sorry for the pun) soldering joints don't stop cable damage. some workman bangs a nail through a board and shorts out a cable, so you go to the nearest test point and is all soldered up - So you go and test from the panel or device end like you would on most jobs, as you know your soldered join is just a complete straight through cable, i dont see your point arf if im honest, if you make a habbit of joins and having to fault find a lot then its great to get to "other" access points in the circuit but imho this should not be necessary. to be clear i wouldn't solder things like tamper loops in panels ect that you would expect to be able to test from for maintenence ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon K Posted July 19, 2013 Author Share Posted July 19, 2013 Well, I've just done some searching and I can't seem to find the CPX installers manual online. Got a programming one, but no installation manual. Maybe my google-fu is simply not strong enough. Here's hoping that securitywarehouse ship one in the box . I'm trying to work out what resistors I need to get to put on the detector side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon K Posted July 19, 2013 Author Share Posted July 19, 2013 Well, I've just done some searching and I can't seem to find the CPX installers manual online. Got a programming one, but no installation manual. Maybe my google-fu is simply not strong enough. Here's hoping that securitywarehouse ship one in the box . I'm trying to work out what resistors I need to get to put on the detector side... Never mind, my google-fu improved ) Looks like I need 6k8 joining the alarm contact and 4k7 bridging to the tamper contact. Question: the manual talks about EOL wiring, not DEOL, but it clearly shows two resistors (which I assume is to allow for detection of the wire being cut). Is that correct and I should just not worry about the terminology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Well, I've just done some searching and I can't seem to find the CPX installers manual online. Got a programming one, but no installation manual. Maybe my google-fu is simply not strong enough. Here's hoping that securitywarehouse ship one in the box . I'm trying to work out what resistors I need to get to put on the detector side...shoukd get a quick start guide in A4,detectors only need 4 wires, 4k7 is the inline 'tamper' which if shorted or OC - causes a tamper . and 6k8 is instaled across the contacts as a bypass of alarm device relays. quck start has drawings come in the box, as do the ressistirss,, not sure if default engineer and user codes are in it (never read it), Pretty obvious your genuine, but we can not offer to send you engineer manuals or defaulting info due ti forum rules, so best email supplier. we can send user manuals in pdf. when you do get to programming, it is mainly get to the option then YES to accept, or press NO, and alter as needed then press YES the enter or change option press yes part set fools many,, you want say zone 4 landing and 5 bedroom 1 off in part set 1, panel default is all zones are on. get to zone atributes Part 1 options and then to press NO - 4 - YES, ditto for Z5 for any other zones you want to turn off in part set 1, same applies fior part set 2. Part set 3 adds the 'off' zones of Part Set 1 to off zones in Part Set 2, used for guest room or your den when your chatting late etc. just don't confuse part set with partition . If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon K Posted July 19, 2013 Author Share Posted July 19, 2013 Found a nice site with a drawing of EOL vs DEOL which seems to confirm my understanding: http://www.structuredhomewiring.com/TamperProofWiring.aspx So it's just a terminology issue in the engineering manual - pretty sure they mean DEOL when they say EOL ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon K Posted July 19, 2013 Author Share Posted July 19, 2013 when you do get to programming, it is mainly get to the option then YES to accept, or press NO, and alter as needed then press YES the enter or change option press yes part set fools many,, you want say zone 4 landing and 5 bedroom 1 off in part set 1, panel default is all zones are on. get to zone atributes Part 1 options and then to press NO - 4 - YES, ditto for Z5 for any other zones you want to turn off in part set 1, same applies fior part set 2. Part set 3 adds the 'off' zones of Part Set 1 to off zones in Part Set 2, used for guest room or your den when your chatting late etc. just don't confuse part set with partition . Thanks . The programming is the one thing I'm confident with, I've always been much better at software and firmware than I have with hardware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 So you go and test from the panel or device end like you would on most jobs, as you know your soldered join is just a complete straight through cable, i dont see your point arf if im honest, if you make a habbit of joins and having to fault find a lot then its great to get to "other" access points in the circuit but imho this should not be necessary. to be clear i wouldn't solder things like tamper loops in panels ect that you would expect to be able to test from for maintenence ect. normally you would run direct to a device, no jointing of any kind needed, these days of remote expanders, less use if multicore cable. But a cable gets damages, then you would i hope not bury the resulting repair under the floorboards and most would not i'd hope . that repair may never cause an issue, but it is now a test point for should their be further or missed rodent/carpet fitter damage. i attend at a later stage, ii might just want to the test the previous engineers conclusions myself (actually being an un-trusting b'strd just bet your butt i would ), and or signs for new damage. as i said, soldering offers nothing more over properly made terminal block connections, you might well make these fine yourself, but not all do and fewer know how to solder. properly. atl junctions where cable outer is removed, connections should be in a prober tampered jb. ok, over lay a larger heat shrink, granted now physically it is as good as other/new/virgin cable, but you then deny a ready made bonus test point, adding labour to any future diagnostics should they be needed, on that cable area. i come along, find your joints i'd have ti revert it back to terminal block, because thats how I do it and for the reasons explained. If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Found a nice site with a drawing of EOL vs DEOL which seems to confirm my understanding: http://www.structuredhomewiring.com/TamperProofWiring.aspx So it's just a terminology issue in the engineering manual - pretty sure they mean DEOL when they say EOL ) early days battery systems had zone batteries at the 'End of Line', which techinacally was the start, usually lodged in the gents bog - unless the engineer had a sense if humour . some designs do have a single resistor, and others even a diode but most use 2, or in later years even 3 to get mask indication or split another zone from same cable. just go with doel, don't forget to choose that option in settings If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Thanks . The programming is the one thing I'm confident with, I've always been much better at software and firmware than I have with hardware!from experience, i feel such show if confidence is the forerunner of much head scratching followed by banging and impending doom lol! still, you have all weekend to get the front door working . get the kit on the work bench, fit resistors and emulate contacts with switches, get familiar, then get it on wall add one zone at a time and test - trust me, or you will risk likely and find i do make good sense. you do the siren last , thats if you like your neighbours. If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon K Posted July 19, 2013 Author Share Posted July 19, 2013 from experience, i feel such show if confidence is the forerunner of much head scratching followed by banging and impending doom lol! That may well be true ). But I've started decommissioning the old box and will get the hardware working first, will program later. The wires are the harder part for me! Especially as there is such a mess here. Ok, first question - the bell box. I've no idea what the bell-box is, but it was connected to the Melcom with five wires. I'm guessing that they should map to the CPX as follows: STB- = STROBE- BELL+ = STROBE BELL+ BELL- = BELL - SAB+ = BELL HOLD SAB- = SAB TMPR Does that seem correct? -simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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