MarkMcIndoe Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 Hello there! I thought I would post this topic on here as it appears to be the best alarm forum for experience and helpfulness. I've installed a number of alarm systems (all Gen3 or Gen4 Accenta panels) in the previous few years without any major faults. Mostly for friends and family. I recently Installed a Gen 4 LCD system into a friends house, and it has triggered in both "set" mode and "day" mode with a tamper fault. This was a sporadic fault, and when tested, the loop tamper, keypad tamper, and bellbox tamper were all good with low resistance. This threw me slighty, so to prove the fault, I shorted all the tampers out at the panel, with the view to reinstall one by one until the fault re-occurred. Anyway, whilst all the tampers were shorted, it has occurred again. 0nce in 5-6 weeks... Is there any instances where this can occur? (eg a short from sensor/12v etc) as I'm wondering if I have a short somewhere in the wiring? Without completely disconnecting and meggaring every cable run(8 sensors+ bellbox+RKP+Dialler!), My only other option I can think of is a faulty tamper circuit on the main board, as the spring switch appears ok and switches but is the only part I havent shorted out. Please help me Guys! This is another "favour job", so the sooner I sort it the quicker I can get on with life!!! Thanks for reading, Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 If ALL the external loops are linked, ie gloabal, sab and keypad then it can only be the panel tamper switch or a faulty board. Is the spring making good contact with the lid, does it need adjusting. If not then id say it needs replacing. securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 If ALL the external loops are linked, ie gloabal, sab and keypad then it can only be the panel tamper switch or a faulty board. Is the spring making good contact with the lid, does it need adjusting. If not then id say it needs replacing. i'm with you James = faulty lid switch or spring needs a stretch. you need to disconnect the wiring not just insert links, as shorts from say te supply line would still cause an issue but first off, i suggest to see if the tampe switch is clicking crisply with a good loud click, some have dodgy inners and work sort of half heartedly (that happens on all makes of kit). other thoughts are is the standby batt taking over properly? and have you tried switching off the power to the panel in both set and unset modes? also switching lights on/off and so on. sometimes old fridge motors can cause poblems via interferrence spikes, a rough indicator is a normal radio not tuned to any station, listen to the amount of crackle as fridge motor starts and stops, should be no more than an electric kettle causes, and a fault which can often show up as a tamper. Arfur If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMcIndoe Posted August 2, 2010 Author Share Posted August 2, 2010 Yes. I even stretched the spring to make sure! The install is only 3 months old, but I also assume its the main board, possibly a dry joint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 id say so. it could be interference. I assume the connections you have looped have nothing connected now? securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMcIndoe Posted August 2, 2010 Author Share Posted August 2, 2010 On 02/08/2010 at 14:07, arfur mo said: i'm with you James = faulty lid switch or spring needs a stretch. you need to disconnect the wiring not just insert links, as shorts from say te supply line would still cause an issue but first off, i suggest to see if the tampe switch is clicking crisply with a good loud click, some have dodgy inners and work sort of half heartedly (that happens on all makes of kit). other thoughts are is the standby batt taking over properly? and have you tried switching off the power to the panel in both set and unset modes? also switching lights on/off and so on. sometimes old fridge motors can cause poblems via interferrence spikes, a rough indicator is a normal radio not tuned to any station, listen to the amount of crackle as fridge motor starts and stops, should be no more than an electric kettle causes, and a fault which can often show up as a tamper. Arfur . Yes the wires were dropped form the loop and rkp tamper connections, I simply shorted the 12v and tamper return on the bellbox wiring and left the wires in.. I have run most cables under the floorboards, and did consider it may be spiking, but the fault isn't regular enough to suspect that..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alterEGO Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 On 02/08/2010 at 14:13, MarkMcIndoe said: . Yes the wires were dropped form the loop and rkp tamper connections, I simply shorted the 12v and tamper return on the bellbox wiring and left the wires in.. I have run most cables under the floorboards, and did consider it may be spiking, but the fault isn't regular enough to suspect that..? Are you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 while spikes are often used as a reason for an alarm, i would look at other things first. A spike can cause an issue and it might only happen once a year or every day. If you have the test equipment you can look for it. Alternatvly disconnect all wiring and see if it stops then. securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpotter Posted August 2, 2010 Share Posted August 2, 2010 What for 5/6 weeks? what bellbox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjax Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 MarkMcindoe, Firstly.. hello mate. When you installed the panel did you over tighten any of the screw terminals that the alarm wiring connects to? The screw terminals are weak and I know from past experience that over tightening them can cause either the solder join or the pin that goes from the screw terminal through the pc board solder join to break, causing an intermittent fault. You can sometimes check this with freezer spray for an electronic components merchant. With the panel lid open, Hold the panel tamper spring/s down and get an accomplice to set the alarm using an external keypad (if fitted) else you can do it yourself at the panel keypad. Now once the alarm system has set, give all the screw terminals, tamper switches and their soldered joints on the panel a good squirt of freezer spray. If you get get your tamper fault back again while the terminals or solder joints are frozen.. you may well have found the fault. Dont go to heavy on any tamper switch with the freezer spray though because that can cause false triggering. Remember metal expands and contracts with temperature... that includes springs in tamper switches. Being a qualified (but ex) electronics engineer (C&G 2240 - 2243) I have used freezer spray to find many these kind of faults in the past. Now an alarm engineer for past 16 years, the highest number of times I have been called out to tamper faults whether the alarm was set or unset was almost always caused by the tamper switch in the bell box... and it has always been Pyronix bells!! Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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