Chorlton Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Grading doesnt come into it. Yu cant grade it as there is no en for foil.As long as it complies with 4737 its fine. I would of thought a Grade 3 system can only have Grade 3 equipment! So the system is now Grade 3 with old/other bits sounds a bit rough imo. clue is in there somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 steveo there is equipment out there where no EN is currently published. Under PD6662 you use the relevant std for that piece of equipment where no EN exists. As no en exists for foil what would you do? securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 this is an old thread, takes me way back to my youth, but then this forum is into regeneration . afaik for BS.4737 you only used a single strip of foil on plate glass windows (glass is tested by using a coin for a double reflection). on standard glass and that's including wired glass, you had to run 'double pole' fashion. this was 'complied' usually with by a single strip across the top on one pole, then going down, across 4", up, across 4" and so on across the glass on the other. where you had 2 or more windows foiled, the 1st window short strip would be on say the positive pole and the second window short strip on the negative pole. in this way should a short or deliberate loop out disable one pole on that circuit, it did not remove all of the active security offered. the take off blocks had to be from different edges and not around one corner, preferably bottom left and top right or visa versa so the glass could not be removed by taking out the putty or removing the framing without damaging the foil. the above being so, that foil as installed never ever complied with BS.4737, if it were done by a registered installer unfortunately that's no surprise for me, and harps back the very early days of foil, before the discovered the window could be holed and a crack even pass under the foil but without breaking it. as such (imho), it is insecure and should be removed, either installed as above (assuming if any of your engineers still know how), or better with modern detection, such as 2 stage acoustic/vibration sensors. regs arfur mo If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 sometimes foil is the only stable way. Im not a fan of breakglass detectors, but there are plenty of easy ways to defeat foil. But it still has its applications IMHO securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RJBsec Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Haven't used it in donkey's years and can't remember the last time I saw it in use. Not really a fan of breakglass detectors either - too many bad experiences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Foil can stay where it is, in the back of the stores forgotten about, and lace and batten. As this is back, anything else we wish to see in room 101?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Foil can stay where it is, in the back of the stores forgotten about, and lace and batten. As this is back, anything else we wish to see in room 101?????? yeah vibros on shop windows and speech diallers securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Haven't used it in donkey's years and can't remember the last time I saw it in use. Not really a fan of breakglass detectors either - too many bad experiences! I still teach my junior engineers how to foil, we may not install it anymore but we still have to repair the odd 4737 system, strangely I was training our young trainee foiling only a couple of months ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistle Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 yeah vibros on shop windows and speech diallers Yes a V-Foam unit in a C Type bell box... FA at 3am due to webbs on the sensors... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I still teach my junior engineers how to foil, we may not install it anymore but we still have to repair the odd 4737 system, strangely I was training our young trainee foiling only a couple of months ago it was an art form to do properly and get straight in its heyday, i cut my teeteh with the lead foil which had no adhesive on Chubb's. tape up 1st, apply varnish then the foil, varnish again at least 2 coats, very fragile stuff it was to. if the windows had condensation when installing, that's when getting it to stick at all was bad enough, and then the varnish would go 'milky'. on colder days in a narrow display windows etc, you had to dry off the window, wait, run in do some foil, run out, wait all before all you body heat caused more condensation. my most endearing memory of foil? i was due to go out to as guest of honour (with a masonic mate) to a masonic function, so about 3pm as it was a quiet sort of day, i changed into my party clothes thinking just do some safe small maintenance calls before clocking off, but i get a pager call to re-foil a front door in a news agents in Barnet. so i thinks 'bugger' just my luck, but easy enough if i'm careful. mark's up, attached foil, attach tape all ok and starts to varnish, when this guy holding 2 large cases barges the door straight into me, i'm holding brand new so full tin of varnish, which gets knocked straight down my really nice strides and shoes, and with no apology he reverses out. to top it all off, he had gone into the wrong shop - he wanted the travel agents next door i had to clean up the shop floor and door, and now cothes and me are totally stinking of varnish and white spirits. meant i had to cancel the night out and throw about £120 worth of my best clobber in the bin. regs Arfur o If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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