TREBORKID Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Could be a job for Derek Acorah.... !! who is delboy then he he ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven sneddon Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 all the best mate u should be happy ur team won yesterday but its hard to keep u lot happy and st pats day the moora enjoy all the best bud and hate to say this but your gypo team was the best yesterday but the league will be ours he he ha ha go on the gers that wee guy way the hat and scarf doesnt no who ta support This will be 4th year in a row I have heard similar statement! Enjoyed game yesterday, especially as we were north stand at segregation, always makes me feel better sitting so close to the unfortunate lol. Wouldn't say we were that great, just better of a bad bunch really. we also work for xxxxxxx. Are you west of Scotland T? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREBORKID Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 no xxxxxxxxx are they dont pay anybody ever all the best mate u should be happy ur team won yesterday but its hard to keep u lot happy and st pats day the moora enjoy all the best bud and hate to say this but your gypo team was the best yesterday but the league will be ours he he ha ha go on the gers that wee guy way the hat and scarf doesnt no who ta supportwould that be the footballer norrie u talking about very nice man he was who is delboy then he he ha ha This will be 4th year in a row I have heard similar statement! Enjoyed game yesterday, especially as we were north stand at segregation, always makes me feel better sitting so close to the unfortunate lol. Wouldn't say we were that great, just better of a bad bunch really. we also work for xxxxxxxxx. Are you west of Scotland T? yes mate west and u must agree both teams are bad just not got the good old days burns team against smiths now that was 2 good teams and some great old firn games 2 dont do work for them but every one i know in the game has had some bad experiance with them just stating wots doing the round and defoe 90 days with them plus retention i was told how can you survive that must be hard all the best mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chorlton Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Please don't mention any company names guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirectFS Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 IMHO, using, and having used a lot of subbies of verious types on many varied projects, (and technically being one myself), subbies fall into three or four quite distinct categories: 1) The guy(s) who "know how the job should be done, don't need a spec, and generally do the job wrong, from the first plug in the wall (if you're lucky), right down to the last tube of grip fill" - these guys won't admit to anything being wrong on their side (but plenty on yours), will tell you contstantly how good they are, how many of the 'big' jobs they did single handedly, and will then , even in the face of proof to the contrary. These are the guys who give everyone in the industry a bad name, and usually try charging around 50%+ on the industry mean. 2) The guy(s) who know what they're doing, are up on standards, but finished their last position as a commissioning or service engineer with XYZ Plc, and don't really want to get their hands dirty, have never worked pyro, galv tube, tray, or anything beyond a striahgtforward commercial or domestic install on the weekend. They'll charge commissioning rates for everything they take on, and often, will leave stuff un done, not through laziness, just lack of install knowledge. 3) The grunt guy(s) - these guys know their stuff, at least as far as a first fix goes, and even as far as second fixing, but will NOT commission, test, or do anything beyone screwing boxes to a wall. Most times, they'll work like billy-o, and do a top job, leaving only connection and commissioning to finish. Industry average rates, preferably day rate, rather than a price for the job - in opposition to the employer's preferred means of capping the labour cost. 4) The All rounder - this guy will work like a trojan, normally running a team of from two to six guys to do the grunt work above, mucking in with them, but will then stop on to do the testing, snagging, and commissioning, all within a fixed price for the lot. Percentage wise, over the last ten years or so, I'd have to say that the number one's account for anything up to 60% of the sub work force out there, the number two's (currently increasing) at around 20%, the threes at 15%, leaving the 4's the last 5%...... which isn't really encouraging for industry standards as a whole. It follows, then that a lot of the guys will get work offers one time, and no more, and the percentage of guys getting constant repeat business considerably fewer - as low as perhaps 20-40% of the available pool. Speaking as a PM, the guys I re-employ from project to project all fall into the (3) and (4) categories, and the newish guys mostly fall into (1) and (2) with the occasional (3) and (4). As for rates, I make sure on every project that my (4)'s, my (3)'s and my new guys get paid on terms, on time, every time - and that's my responsibility too - if I don't sign off on their sheets, they don't get paid. If they don't do the job they're expecting payment for, I don't sign their sheets. Advice: If you are considering subcontract work, there are s****y companies out there as well as poor subbies. But, cover your a** as much as you can - get a clear written job brief from the company you're working for - ask them for a copy of the spec, any special terms or variations from norm. Also, don't be afraid to ask them to sign an agreement at director level that they will pay you on agreed terms, at the correct time, having completed and handed over the work to the company agent (who should sign off on said handover whilst on site with you). Bill. Bill Accord Fire & Security Services Ltd. www.accordfire.co.uk ~ TEL: 0845 474 5839 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven sneddon Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Please don't mention any company names guys Sorry Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chorlton Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 no worries fella, don't mind naming per say just not in the context the kid brought their name up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREBORKID Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 IMHO, using, and having used a lot of subbies of verious types on many varied projects, (and technically being one myself), subbies fall into three or four quite distinct categories:1) The guy(s) who "know how the job should be done, don't need a spec, and generally do the job wrong, from the first plug in the wall (if you're lucky), right down to the last tube of grip fill" - these guys won't admit to anything being wrong on their side (but plenty on yours), will tell you contstantly how good they are, how many of the 'big' jobs they did single handedly, and will then , even in the face of proof to the contrary. These are the guys who give everyone in the industry a bad name, and usually try charging around 50%+ on the industry mean. 2) The guy(s) who know what they're doing, are up on standards, but finished their last position as a commissioning or service engineer with XYZ Plc, and don't really want to get their hands dirty, have never worked pyro, galv tube, tray, or anything beyond a striahgtforward commercial or domestic install on the weekend. They'll charge commissioning rates for everything they take on, and often, will leave stuff un done, not through laziness, just lack of install knowledge. 3) The grunt guy(s) - these guys know their stuff, at least as far as a first fix goes, and even as far as second fixing, but will NOT commission, test, or do anything beyone screwing boxes to a wall. Most times, they'll work like billy-o, and do a top job, leaving only connection and commissioning to finish. Industry average rates, preferably day rate, rather than a price for the job - in opposition to the employer's preferred means of capping the labour cost. 4) The All rounder - this guy will work like a trojan, normally running a team of from two to six guys to do the grunt work above, mucking in with them, but will then stop on to do the testing, snagging, and commissioning, all within a fixed price for the lot. Percentage wise, over the last ten years or so, I'd have to say that the number one's account for anything up to 60% of the sub work force out there, the number two's (currently increasing) at around 20%, the threes at 15%, leaving the 4's the last 5%...... which isn't really encouraging for industry standards as a whole. It follows, then that a lot of the guys will get work offers one time, and no more, and the percentage of guys getting constant repeat business considerably fewer - as low as perhaps 20-40% of the available pool. Speaking as a PM, the guys I re-employ from project to project all fall into the (3) and (4) categories, and the newish guys mostly fall into (1) and (2) with the occasional (3) and (4). As for rates, I make sure on every project that my (4)'s, my (3)'s and my new guys get paid on terms, on time, every time - and that's my responsibility too - if I don't sign off on their sheets, they don't get paid. If they don't do the job they're expecting payment for, I don't sign their sheets. Advice: If you are considering subcontract work, there are s****y companies out there as well as poor subbies. But, cover your a** as much as you can - get a clear written job brief from the company you're working for - ask them for a copy of the spec, any special terms or variations from norm. Also, don't be afraid to ask them to sign an agreement at director level that they will pay you on agreed terms, at the correct time, having completed and handed over the work to the company agent (who should sign off on said handover whilst on site with you). Bill. bill this is the best reply all day and agree totaly i fall into group4 and have achip when see these other guys mucking up the industry seven years 4men and me started with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven sneddon Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 who is delboy then he he ha ha yes mate west and u I moved to Blantyre about ten years ago. must agree both teams are bad just not got the good old days burns team against smiths now that was 2 good teams and some great old firn games 2 Yeh but back then we played great entertaining football but won nothing. dont do work for them but every one i know in the game has had some bad experiance with them just stating wots doing the round and defoe 90 days with them plus retention i was told how can you survive that must be hard Its 60 days (90 if you miss cut off for invoicing) still hard as every body else needs to be payed in the meantime 6x guys weekly wages, vat, vans and diesel wholesalers mostly enhanced cable(double the price of standard FP) as all jobs are mainly schools. Stop here as this is turning into rant. all the best mate All the best to yourself also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREBORKID Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 All the best to yourself also. sorry for naming didnt know all the best guys am off ta bed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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