kensplace Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Anyone know if there are any regulations covering the use of a alarm panel/and or fire panel to control a maglock which keeps a fire door locked at all times until the panel alarms for a fire/emergency? If so what they are? Is it allowed, seems a little dangerous if the panel fails in some way so the lock is always engaged, or for some reason a fire is not picked up by the sensors, or even some mass panic which causes people to have to leave in a hurry, before anyone can activate the alarm, then the fire door would be locked when its needed most. Do fire doors not have to be treated as a emergency exit, and always have to be openable (signal an alarm by all means) and not 'locked' by automated equipment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black knight Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Anyone know if there are any regulations covering the use of a alarm panel/and or fire panel to control a maglock which keeps a fire door locked at all times until the panel alarms for a fire/emergency? If so what they are? Is it allowed, seems a little dangerous if the panel fails in some way so the lock is always engaged, or for some reason a fire is not picked up by the sensors, or even some mass panic which causes people to have to leave in a hurry, before anyone can activate the alarm, then the fire door would be locked when its needed most. Do fire doors not have to be treated as a emergency exit, and always have to be openable (signal an alarm by all means) and not 'locked' by automated equipment? Not sure on the regs but can only talk on experience. if its a fire door there has to be a way to open said fire door ie a push bar - i cannot see a fire officer allowing it to electronically locked ie mag lock, unless you can come up with a way that pushing the bar will disengage the mag. I know you have a emergency egress on these types of mag system but in case of emergency and people panicking you don,t want them searching for a green break glass as well as pushing a push bar. I.m sure somebody on here can come up with the proper regs - i just prefer commom sense. P THE BLACK KNIGHT "Any comments / opinions posted are my opinion only and do not represent those of my employer or Company." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breff Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 We have fitted a touch sensitive electronic fire bar to a door in the past. Not sure where we got it from though. The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 We maintain/install these in nursing / res homes where they are in place to stop vulnerable people escaping. They are usually interfaced to the alarm in such a way that the door releases while the bell/sounder is ringing/sounding. They also have a secondary means of operation, often an "emergency light test switch" or a numerical keypad. Also a good idea to put in a green break glass unit (often at high level so that the inmates don't realise what it does). Sometimes a weatherproof switch on the outside if access from outside is required. You do need to emphasise to the responsible person that training of staff is paramount, i.e. do not silence the alarm until it is confirmed to be false as the door will relock on "silence alarms", not on "reset". There are all sorts of problems with compliance, but if your client also has to ensure that patients do not abscond, this is a common compromise. Fire Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltaseven Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 We look after a number of retail sites with mag locks on the designated fire exits. As long as there is a fail-safe arrangement for releasing the doors, you should be fine. Depending on the site, we fit either green break-glass units, electronic push-bars or a combination of the two, we also always interface to the fire alarm. That said, obviously, the staff on site need to be trained on the use of the emergency release procedures. The MSPB (Microswitch Push-bar) from Specialised Security Products is great. Depending where in the country you are (different fire-safety officers seem to have different ideas), you will need to ensure you disconnect the positive to the lock or both positive and negative (never just negative). The MSPB comes with a double-pole switch for this reason. D7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chorlton Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 as per previous posts & just to add there is no black & white anymore with fire. as BS is not law it can be deviated from IF sufficent reason is given in a fire risk assessment. for example the danger to H&S is high (nursing home escapee) or theft risk etc. The ultimate decision on what is rtight & wrong lies with the RP under the RRO. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Yes, you can have electric locking on both internal and the exit/escapeFire Doors. They must be fitted with a Green Break Glass unit or isolated by a relay unit controlled by Fire Panel. Both of these must be the last item in the circuit before the lock. The locks MUST be Fail Safe. Now the fun bit. Different Fire authorities have differing views on systems. LEFPA (London) require double pole GBUs with text warning such as "Break glass in emergency" at least 20mm in size. Anyone seen these in Gardiners/Norbain?? Also depends on Fire Officer, if certificate required. Some will accept Fire Panel isolation or GBUs, some insist on both (because they don't understand electrics). If the building is for public use. Some (Manchester) insist on mechanical locks and release. For Hospitals, care homes, secure units etc. slightly different requirements can apply. Some have Green Break units that are key operated. These are allowed if enough Detection devices are in situ and enough staff on duty to operate/control the doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensplace Posted August 23, 2008 Author Share Posted August 23, 2008 , Im not installing, just wondering after reading up on what people are using galaxies to do, and being a bit shocked to find out what appears to be a national supermarket chain puts protecting stock over peoples lives in an emergency. If its allowed Im still not convinced things can be failsafe in a manner that will always let people out when its needed the most... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 If its allowed Im still not convinced things can be failsafe in a manner that will always let people out when its needed the most... May we ask why?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 removing power to a maglock will definetly realese it. Why do you think it wouldnt? securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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