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Scantronic 9448+ - Flase Alarms


golf123

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Hi,

I have a Scantronic 9448+ Alarm with an SD1 speech dialler. Over the last few weeks I have experienced instances where the alarm activates without it even being set. This happened again last night at 3am! Any ideas what could be causing this?

Thanks for your help.

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back up battery, is one good possibility..when was it last changed?

Kevin Scott. Owner of KK Alarms...... Installation .. Service .. Repair ...... Thoughout.. Northumberland and North Tyneside ..... Tel:01670 361948 (call diverted after 15 seconds) or 07947444114

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Hi,

I have a Scantronic 9448+ Alarm with an SD1 speech dialler. Over the last few weeks I have experienced instances where the alarm activates without it even being set. This happened again last night at 3am! Any ideas what could be causing this?

Thanks for your help.

To be honest the problem you describe could be caused by literally any individual part of the system.

Might be able to narrow it down a bit if you can give a little more info.

When the alarm activates (when unset) does the SD1 dial out? Does the external sounder operate or is it just the internal?

When you silence it what lights are illuminated on the panel?

As already suggested it could be the battery and it would be worth replacing the battery anyway if it is more than 3 years old.

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Many thanks for the responses.

I'm not exactly sure when the back-up battery was replaced but think it could have been about two years ago.

It is only the internal alarms which sounds and the speech dialler doesn't dial out. When we turn off the alarm after it sounds the tamper light displays red until we reset it.

We'll replace the back-up battery but any other thoughts you have are really appreciated.

Thanks again.

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Could be.................battery,keypad,bell,panel lid,any of the detectors, any of the wiring, panel.

Most likely.........battery.

The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct!

(Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not)

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Could be.................battery,keypad,bell,panel lid,any of the detectors, any of the wiring, panel.

Most likely.........battery.

External Sounder :cold2:

There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.

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Guest anguscanplay
External Sounder :cold2:

think about it .............. external sounder not sounding ........ battery, cable or device IMO

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think about it .............. external sounder not sounding ........ battery, cable or device IMO
I have experienced instances where the alarm activates without it even being set. This happened again last night at 3am!
It is only the internal alarms which sounds and the speech dialler doesn't dial out. When we turn off the alarm after it sounds the tamper light displays red until we reset it.

Still putting my quid on ext sounder, but will bow to everyone else's expert knowledge of the 9448 :rolleyes:

There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.

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Hi,

I have a Scantronic 9448+ Alarm with an SD1 speech dialler. Over the last few weeks I have experienced instances where the alarm activates without it even being set. This happened again last night at 3am! Any ideas what could be causing this?

Thanks for your help.

Best thing to do is eliminate what it aint.

Change battery, see how goes.

In the control panel take the wires out of the a/t terminals (rhs near +ve & -ve terminals & label the wires) and put a wire link in their place. If you still got problems (panel says tamper) then...

put the wires back in A/t as they were, and take the wire out of the TR (bottom connectors near bell etc. label the wire) and put a link between TR & 0v (next to TR terminal) see how goes. If you still got problems

Assuming you got 9427 keypad, put wire back in TR as before and remove link, now disconnect all the wires (in the panel) to the keypad (+ve, -ve. data & clock) and use on board keypad if poss, otherwise just leave system in day mode to see if you get tamper come up again.

These 4 things will prove where to START looking.

If battery, straight forward change.

Any of the others, suggest call an engineer.

Hope this helps

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Guest anguscanplay
Still putting my quid on ext sounder, but will bow to everyone else's expert knowledge of the 9448 :rolleyes:

bell tamper would trigger the outside sounder too - 3.00 am? classic battery time

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One question. When it activates can you reset it straight away by entering your code again? If so I'd deffo say battery, if not then I would also go for bell (it may not ring Angus because its own battery is shagged)

The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct!

(Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not)

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Guest anguscanplay
One question. When it activates can you reset it straight away by entering your code again? If so I'd deffo say battery, if not then I would also go for bell (it may not ring Angus because its own battery is shagged)

bell tamper ring is generated from the control unit nothing to do with its own battery is it?

this is turning into an ABC fault finding course - LOL

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Post #1 > .... experienced instances where the alarm activates without it even being set.

Post #4 > .... It is only the internal alarms which sounds and the speech dialler doesn't dial out. When we turn off the alarm after it sounds the tamper light displays red until we reset it.

Not set, so SD1 and external sounder will not operate (unless the external sounder is the problem)

You will have to test all anti tamper returns at the control panel, one of them will point to the problem

Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care.

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bell tamper ring is generated from the control unit nothing to do with its own battery is it?

this is turning into an ABC fault finding course - LOL

Not on a 9448, internals only on tamper alarm, unless set.

The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct!

(Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not)

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Guest anguscanplay
Post #1 > .... experienced instances where the alarm activates without it even being set.

Post #4 > .... It is only the internal alarms which sounds and the speech dialler doesn't dial out. When we turn off the alarm after it sounds the tamper light displays red until we reset it.

Not set, so SD1 and external sounder will not operate (unless the external sounder is the problem)

You will have to test all anti tamper returns at the control panel, one of them will point to the problem or its the battery like in 80% plus of these cases

go with the obvious - its usually the right choice

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Yes I can - entering the code resets it stratight away. Thanks.

One question. When it activates can you reset it straight away by entering your code again? If so I'd deffo say battery, if not then I would also go for bell (it may not ring Angus because its own battery is shagged)
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OK, it's been advised several times thus far but have you replaced the battey yet ???

C.

:blink:

Just my two penneth worth but I doubt that it is the battery.

My money is on a tamper circuit or sas return but as always very difficult to diagnose remotely, especially with a 9448!

It needs a man/woman with a meter to narrow it down properly.

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Guest anguscanplay
Just my two penneth worth but I doubt that it is the battery.

why? what do your FA stats say is most comman then, though agreed it needs a meter on site

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My stats dont say battery, we must service our systems different to you.

While i dont know the scanny 9448 id assume if its logging a tamper then its a tamper problem, i know some of the cheaper panels lie in the logs when the battery is had it but as i said no direct experiemce with the 9448

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why? what do your FA stats say is most comman then, though agreed it needs a meter on site

I don't have FA stats as I no longer work in the industry but in my personal experince a faulty battery wouldn't manifest itself in this way with a 9448.

The 9448 will work quite happily without a battery fitted (as long as the mains is present), obviously if there was a mains failure the alarm would activate but it would be a full alarm with externals and speech dialler.

I'm not saying it couldn't be a battery fault, if the mains failed and the battery voltage slowly drops to a level at which the processor fails then anything could happen but I would certainly think the more likely cause is external to the control panel.

Again, in my experince, due to the exposed nature of external sounders they are often the source of tamper problems and although the OP has not heard the external sounder a corroded microswitch in an external sounder can often go high resitance for long enough to trigger the panel but not long enough to make the external sounder ring before the fault has fixed itself.

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Guest anguscanplay
I don't have FA stats as I no longer work in the industry but in my personal experince a faulty battery wouldn't manifest itself in this way with a 9448. well trust someone who still works in it - it will and it does

The 9448 will work quite happily without a battery fitted (as long as the mains is present), obviously if there was a mains failure the alarm would activate but it would be a full alarm with externals and speech dialler.nope

I'm not saying it couldn't be a battery fault, if the mains failed and the battery voltage slowly drops to a level at which the processor fails then anything could happen but I would certainly think the more likely cause is external to the control panel. nothing to do with mains fails its around four? times as likely to be the battery over the bell tamper but in this case (assuming the 9448+ is progged right) its more like 100%

Again, in my experince, due to the exposed nature of external sounders they are often the source of tamper problems and although the OP has not heard the external sounder a corroded microswitch in an external sounder can often go high resitance for long enough to trigger the panel but not long enough to make the external sounder ring before the fault has fixed itself.the panel "makes " the external sounder ring on bellbox tamper so if the panel goes so does the bell

wonder if the O/P has managed to get a multimeter yet - LOL

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wonder if the O/P has managed to get a multimeter yet - LOL

don't have FA stats as I no longer work in the industry but in my personal experince a faulty battery wouldn't manifest itself in this way with a 9448. well trust someone who still works in it - it will and it does Perhaps you could explain the mecahnism which causes this phenomena?

The 9448 will work quite happily without a battery fitted (as long as the mains is present), obviously if there was a mains failure the alarm would activate but it would be a full alarm with externals and speech dialler.nope I stand to be corrected but as I recall 9448s (in common with many Scantronic panels) power up in full alarm including external sounders and Speech Dialler if triggered via bell output.

I'm not saying it couldn't be a battery fault, if the mains failed and the battery voltage slowly drops to a level at which the processor fails then anything could happen but I would certainly think the more likely cause is external to the control panel. nothing to do with mains fails its around four? times as likely to be the battery over the bell tamper but in this case (assuming the 9448+ is progged right) its more like 100% So assuming that the battery is 100% more likely to cause a tamper fault than an external fault are you saying that nothing external to the panel will ever cause a tamper activation?

Again, in my experince, due to the exposed nature of external sounders they are often the source of tamper problems and although the OP has not heard the external sounder a corroded microswitch in an external sounder can often go high resitance for long enough to trigger the panel but not long enough to make the external sounder ring before the fault has fixed itself.the panel "makes " the external sounder ring on bellbox tamper so if the panel goes so does the bell. Not true.

If the panel is unset it will not cause an external sounder to activate on tamper unless the panel is programmed for externals on tamper when unset and as I recall this wasn't an option on the 9448.

Different makes and models of SAS work differently but with many older units the microswitch interupts the neagtive supply when opened, this will make the external sounder activate (but only for as long as the switch is open) and will remove the negative return thuis causing the panel to tamper. If the panel is not programmed for externals on tamper the full alarm will not activate if unset.

I do thouroughly repect the fact that you still work in the industry but an explanantion of your arguments would be helpful to both the OP and to me.

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Guest anguscanplay
Different makes and models of SAS work differently but with many older units the microswitch interupts the neagtive supply when opened, this will make the external sounder activate (but only for as long as the switch is open) and will remove the negative return thuis causing the panel to tamper. If the panel is not programmed for externals on tamper the full alarm will not activate if unset.

I do thouroughly repect the fact that you still work in the industry but an explanantion of your arguments would be helpful to both the OP and to me.

quite simply as you state - the loss of a neg tamper return will force the panel to sound the external sounder (IIRC the 9448+ doesnt allow for non triggering of bell tamper) which didnt happen in this post

.

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