Regalsafe Rs40 Factory Reset?

[Guest RichardS]

Brian the problem as I see it is that the information you are/were requesting would presumably be a default code for all panels of that model not just the one in your house.

Whilst I understand the objections raised by the pro installers regarding people managing their own systems etc (risk of increased false alarms etc.), I don't think they are going to turn up in your front garden armed with pitchforks, a large stake and a bonfire if this is the route you really want to go down.

However, as previously stated they are not going to give you a code that would allow you to default not just your own system but anyone else's with the same CP.

This would be almost like an IT engineer, supporting a large corporate where there is a standard build with a default local admin password, allowing the local admin password for the PC's to be leaked to the end users - something which, when this was more common due to limited capabilities of imaging equipment, would be an instant p45 should the engineer in question be found out.

[Guest brian gladman]

If a customer wanted me to fit/upgrade a system for them and they wanted full control including access to their own engineer code I would require the following conditions before I even thought about whether I would do it:-

Thank you for your further input, which is a little different (even if only slightly!) to the situation that I thought was being presented here that a professional installer wouldn't ever do this. In my view it is entirely reasonable that you should set conditions on your involvement in such an unusual situation.

1) A letter of agreement from their insurers if the alarm system had any relevance to the insurer.

That would rule it out for me for me as I don't believe in three party trust relationships because they complicate contractual responsibilities and are likely to force me to reveal information to other parties that I want to keep private. I would certainly accept a letter from you indicating that you were only responsible for alarm installation and had no responsibility for its operation, maintenance or support. You could also state anything else that you wished to in this letter provided its full text was agreed between us before I placed any contract with you.

But you would have to trust me to pass this to my insurer if they requested information about alarm installation.

2) A waiver signed by the customer waiving all warranty rights to the system/control panel.

I would expect normal manufacturer guarantees, not less and not more. I would not expect you to add anything by way of guarantee but I would expect to be covered for the normal faulty goods guarantee subject to the normal waivers about interference with the product(s).

3) A letter signed by the customer agreeing to the fact that maintenance of any description would require payment (ie no contract available).

That would be ok.

4) A letter signed by the customer acknowledging that the system could not be provided with police response.

That would be ok too.

I may need more depending upon circumstances, in order to protect my company from claims of loss/damage etc arising out of interference to the installation by the customer or his/her agent.

I would expect to find a way of wording our agreement in such a way that your only responsibilitesi were for the installation of the system (and its supply if you did supply it). I certainly accept that you would need to be certain that you could walk away unencumbered as soon as you had fitted the system.

In practice, my conclusion was that DIY is inevitable in my situation since doing an installationm for me would simply not be worthwhile (I would do one of the things that you said that you would not want your cutomers to do - I can't remeber which but it was one of them!).

with best regards,

Brian Gladman

[Guest brian gladman]

There you go then - problem solved!

Except that I hate DIY - I'd be much happier building the alarm than I ever would be installing it!

Thanks though for your input.

best regards,

Brian Gladman

[Adi]

There you go then - problem solved!

I dont think soooo.

[ian.cant]

Interesting thread but there is only one conclusion from my point of view.

Any Pro installer with an ounce of common sense would be a fool to install a system and hand it over to you or a client with similar demands.

There could never be a warranty or guarantee claim as the installer is the holder of the warranty and seeing as you want control then you will inevitably lose any warranty at the point of handover, unless i as i said the installer was a fool.

I also thought i should mention i take offence at your inference earlier that Pro installers are not to be trusted. Sure over the years there may have been a handfull of rogue engineers, in my 20 years in the game ive never met one or know one. In your proffession though i do know that your collegues were a lot happier to sell out information of a lot more sensitive nature!

[Anusoflannigan]

Except that I hate DIY - I'd be much happier building the alarm than I ever would be installing it!

Thanks though for your input.

best regards,

Brian Gladman

There you go. just build yourself a new panel that fits all your requirements and attach it to your existing system already installed... I'm sure you have a few old valves kicking around

P.S Mr Happy does alright for me!

[Guest brian gladman]

Interesting thread but there is only one conclusion from my point of view.

I had thought that it might be in everyone's interests to let this thread die quietly. But since you and Adi want it to continue with it, I am happy to see where we can take it.

I also thought i should mention i take offence at your inference earlier that Pro installers are not to be trusted. Sure over the years there may have been a handfull of rogue engineers, in my 20 years in the game ive never met one or know one. In your proffession though i do know that your collegues were a lot happier to sell out information of a lot more sensitive nature!

If you are referring to this:

"And the fact that he was able to do this anonymously means that the only way a member of the public reading this thread can avoid having their security possibly depend on Mr Happy is to avoid ALL of you!"

then I willingly apologise to any INDIVIDUAL installer who takes offence at this. But this is not an unreserved apology and it cannot be so until Mr Happy tells us who he is, who he works for and which organisation, if any, he is registered with. In my view an anonymous member of your trade incited burglary on a public forum and I am now carefully watching how you as a trade, one with aspirations to be considered professional, react to this.

Mr Happy has done this not in his own name, not in the name of his company but in your name as a trade group. In consequence if you are going to come here and defend his behaviour, or even condone it by your silence, then you must bear the consequences as a GROUP. "Trades" tolerate bad behaviour and leave others to carry the immediate consequences while the trade as a whole carries the damage this does to their reputation with the public. "Professions" take a very different approach.

As you say, Ian, my profession has bad guys too and I cannot think of any profession where this isn't true. But I can assure you that if a saw a member of my profession do what Mr Happy did in public, I would be seeking a discipliniary hearing immediately and it WOULD happen (but let me say immediately that I DON'T want any action taken against Mr Happy because the real problem is far deeper than this).

After a couple of days here is what I have learnt of your trade:

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1. Those who post in their own name and in clear association with their employer (e.g Alarm Guard) not only post with care but are very aware of the damage that abusive and unprofessional posts can do. The company allows it members to post in the company name and there is a clear association between the ethics of the company and the ethics of its employees. This is a company I would trust.

2. RJBSEC posts in clear association with his company. He and I seem to be poles apart in our view of what matters in security but if I needed the support of his company I would trust them and their employees.

3. A number of people in the trade post anonymously but are prepared to say who they are if asked. They are not abusive and have given by far the most constructive responses to my posts. Bellman is the most obvious example who springs to mind, not because he is alone but rather because his posts lead me to believe that his view of security is very similar to my own.

4. Then there are those who post anonymously because their company only allows them to post in this way. These companies evidently don't trust their employees to act responsibly and they don't mind if they post wrecklessly and unprofessionally when associated with the trade provided that they are not associated with the company!! I cannot see any basis on which I should trust such companies - they don't even trust their own employees to act responsibly and they don't care what damage their employees might do to the reputation of the trade as a whole.

5. And then there are the idiots, of which little more needs to be said - if your trade was truly professional they would not even be members in the first place.

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RJBSEC said that he felt that more publicity was needed. I think he is right but I don't think that this will be sufficient. If you as a GROUP want to be seen as professionals then you have to both set and police standards of behavour that apply to your individual members. In my view banning anonymous posting here would be an immediate indication that you don't intend to tolerate wreckless or abusive posting in the name of your trade and would show onlookers that you do have standards and that you are not only professional but you intend to be SEEN as professional.

I apologise for the length of this post. I have spent some time on this in the hope that it might do some good. But I am resigned to the fact that it seems, from past experience at least, to be far more likely to attract a further torrent of abuse.

with best regards,

Brian Gladman

[Guest brian gladman]

I dont think soooo.

I believe that RBJSEC's comment that the problem had been solved was entirely genuine on his part.

In contrast I think your remark is a snide comment intended as a direct insult to me.

But maybe I have misinterpreted your remark so I am going to give you an opportunity to clarify it before taking any further action.

Brian Gladman

[Guest]

Okay....

IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT ONLY A PERSON QUALIFIED AND COMPETANT TO DO SO REMOVES ANY EQUIPMENT OR COVERS EXPOSING LIVE PARTS.

You will not give out engineering manuals, defaulting,............

With regard to the contacts details, largely those firms

[Service Engineer]

I apologise for the length of this post. I have spent some time on this in the hope that it might do some good. But I am resigned to the fact that it seems, from past experience at least, to be far more likely to attract a further torrent of abuse.

No need to apologise about the post lenth, And I totally understand and accept all your comments.

All our Trade Members have to go through a vetting process before they are accepted into the Trade Group, and once approved ALL trade members submit voluntary information about themselves to the Trade forums so that fellow Trade members can see who they are. There are many reasons that this information is not made public, and it is left upto each individual member as to what information about themselves they choose to share. But some do prefer total anonymity and although this is not ideal, I do have to respect there wishes.

Each Trade member has supplied at least the information below, and it has been verified before they have been given Trade Status. The full requirements for trade status can be seen here:

http://www.thesecurityinstaller.co.uk/trade.asp

Your Name *

Forum Name *

Email Address *

Phone Number *

Your Job Title *

Employers Name *

Employers Address *

Employer Phone Number *

Reason for this Application *

Proof of Trade Status *

Employees:

1. All applicants must be currently employed by a company offering installation, service and maintenance to electronic security systems.

2. All approved applications are valid for 12 months.

3. All applicants are subject to a one month probationary period.

4. All applicants must seek permission from their employer to use their employer's name or logo, in avatars or signatures.

5. All applicants must be able to provide the information set out below;

Proof of Trade: You must be able to provide us with an advertised telephone number, and location advertised, for your employer.

You must obtain permission from your employer for us to contact them regarding your application.

OR

You must be nominated by an existing approved trade member.

Your objections to the anonymous Trade Members of this community has been noted, and indeed the matter is being discussed elsewhere on these boards. But it is unlikely that I will be doing anymore than asking trade members to display any details about themselves other than what they are voluntarilly happy to divulge.