Guest MSI New York Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Hi MSI New YorkThe UK does not accept fire detection connected to the intruder system although this often happens as a customer enhanced feature especially for monitoring. UK fire systems are totally autonomous. Jef Alright, but if some crackhead is breaking into your house at three AM, you'd want to be woken up as well, so you can pull out your machine gun/ hide in your closet/ release the hounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Alright, but if some crackhead is breaking into your house at three AM, you'd want to be woken up as well, so you can pull out your machine gun/ hide in your closet/ release the hounds. I think you should be looking at moving to a new safer location if things are that poor. Iraq maybe. Jef Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.J.M Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 My aplogies for going slightly off topic but the previous post got me thinking PC.If you should have audiable setting tones but do not have to have visual setting indications then surely that is dicriminatory to the deaf............. only if you want to open your house to the public. what about the confirmed setting with the sab strobe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MSI New York Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 ...... probably not - by the time you get up and deal with the crackhead you'd have to start thinking about how you are going to cope with being arrested for dealing with him, the cost of a court appearance and subsequent time in jail/loss of employment, whilst he claims compensation to subsidise his benefit cheque!(Not as bizarre as it sounds.) Oh, right... England... In Florida they just passed a law known as the "Castle Doctrine". Nearly everywhere in the country you can shoot and kill a home invader with little or no legal penalties (in theory, anyway), but the Castle Doctrine extends that legal principle to outside your home. In other words, if you "feel threatened" you can shoot and kill a man on the street. Everyone is sure the state of Florida will be sued to death due to this law, but it sure will be fun to watch. I should point out that home invasions are rare to nonexistant, due, most experts agree, to homeowner's rights to self defense. Remember, gentelmen: We are in the business of crime. Business is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trulloman Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 National Approval Council for Security Systems and is authorised to issue to the Customer a 'Certificate of Compliance' upon completion. Have you been issued with this certificate? If not request this from the builder. You could write to the National Approval Council for Security Systems and express your views to them. If they decide that you should have an internal sounder in addition to the keypad sounder the installing company must provide it at there own cost to bring the system in line with the regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morph Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 National Approval Council for Security Systems and is authorised to issue to the Customer a 'Certificate of Compliance' upon completion.Have you been issued with this certificate? If not request this from the builder. You could write to the National Approval Council for Security Systems and express your views to them. If they decide that you should have an internal sounder in addition to the keypad sounder the installing company must provide it at there own cost to bring the system in line with the regulations. Assuming of course the system was installed by an approved NSI/Nacoss company. Without having a specification neither the customer or Nacoss will be able to deciede what standard the system was installed to, if any. It may like most builders alarms be very basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trulloman Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Assuming of course the system was installed by an approved NSI/Nacoss company. Without having a specification neither the customer or Nacoss will be able to deciede what standard the system was installed to, if any. It may like most builders alarms be very basic. See post 16 Hi All, I have now received a formal reply from the alarm company which reads: The following specification is for the installation of an AUDIBLE INTRUDER ALARM SYSTEM at the above mentioned premises. The proposed installation is in accordance with BS4737 Part 1 1986. The company is a 'Quality Assured Installer' on the roll of the National Approval Council for Security Systems and is authorised to issue to the Customer a 'Certificate of Compliance' upon completion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morph Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 dohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Missed that one, what you say is right, but i would ask the firm if there is a volume issue first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 There are standards on the one hand and good practice on the other - it has been suggested that you get what you pay for, but even that is not always true.Your observations about the uselessness of an audible-only alarm without internal audibles reflect common sense but obviously the builders' alarm company considers a few pounds saved more important than good practice and common sense. An internal speaker/sounder could fairly easily be fitted within the house, or most probably a speaker unit could be fitted within the control panel end station to save additional cable runs in your new house. or most probably a speaker unit could be fitted within the control panel end station to save additional cable runs in your new house. thats not allowed from the days of BS 4737 standards and has been to my knowledge banned for ages on kits that have a seperate control panel and keypad. you are not meant to give a clue to the intruder (via the sounder located in or near the panel) as to the concealed location of the controls. the reason is on entry via the entry route the siren would tell the intruder where the controls are and allowing more time to disable them before the bells sound. this is more important if it has a digi-com or speech dialler installed later. as to if you should fit an internal speaker? if you fit the siren in say the hall, and a fault developes preventing the client from silencing the siren (keypad key jammed for one), major nervouse distress and nausia can be caused to all occupants especially young children, and the elderly who may suffer heart problems from the stress caused by the prolonged very loud noise's. clients will often ring for assistance shouting over the siren making communication near inpossible, they do not think to call you from a mobile outside of the premmisses for assistance, if it a person in night clothes or has yung children that is not even an option - ever been in the service office or on night call when this happens? chaos!. well there are several other points missed above raised here, and yes i am playing devils advocate!, 1) a respectable company would include in any exclusions/notes pointing out any shortfalls in design and/or cause and effect when placing the tender, seeking to gain contractors permission (RFI) to alter it . 2) if you win the order and then fit the internal sirens, you can be asked to remove them and make good at your expense to the decorations and by using the original decorators - costly , as it was not in the specification - it happened to me and i was asked to reduce the price by the cost of the installed sirens on top of the decoration costs . 3) site electricians install the cables for the alarm company to connect, then do not allow for the internal siren run (thats why its not in the spec that you see in the 1st place), as the expert you should spot this on the plans and notify. 4) the keypad has an albeit small, but harsh sounding exit/entry bleeper, the keypad is normally located near the front door, so in most cases easy to hear externally even with double glazing as long as you are not on a busy road. 5) fitting an internal speaker will often cause the internal setting and key press sounds to be too loud. 6) if you are the intruder you will normally break-in when its quiet (so i'm told), so you will hear the entry bleeper if you come in through the front door. as you are 'tuned' to listen to any noise, breaking in through the back, you will hear a decent external siren and hopefully leave. 7) when dealing with builders they tend to tell you the specification, written by an architect who has no idea of the standards or what way is up, and you then tender for it in this format. so now you have a clear cut facts and oppinions to decide what is correct for yourselves! If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 i would add i never have combined intruder alarms with fire/smoke alarm detectors. i worked for honeywell/shield alarms who decided it was a good idea - NOT! if the intruder alarm fails so wil the fire/smoke alarm and visi versa. we spend all our time designing and installing to avoid false alarms, having seperate zones for each pir - and then wtf you shove a volotile smoke detector on the system, requiring a higher level of emergency response as it is a life threat not to have it working. did you know, even on limited companies the directors/owners are directly legally culpable for any fire/smoke system installed or maintained by that company, where the system fails to operate causing loss of life or property ? well now you do! still think its a good idea? If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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