Guest gary Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I want to add a speech dialler to a intellisense 800L which I have recently installed. In an ideal world I would run the cable from the downstairs hall sraight up the outside wall into the loft through a conduit(preferbly plastic) which would be partially hidden as it would be up a sideway next to a drain pipe. How far do your "average" burglars go into a full recon,or is it a "quick their out" situation. I wouldn't say it was impossible to run it inside but just a complete nightmare. Not be an alarm engineer I didn't know the complications if they got to the cable. Just to add yet more background I live in a resedential,three bed semi detached street so I don't think I would get you "Mission impossible"stylie cat burglars. Sorry about the long post but any advice would be appreciated. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secboy Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Simple way to answer this yourself Gary with no help from us!! Q 1.Can you do disable it? Q2 2 Are you happy with the way your going to do it? Now you know how you should do it its up to you how you do it!!! Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gary Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 paul I can disable the alarm from the key pad inside,but I wouldn't of thought from the speech dialler cable ,but I do get your drift. Any chance of popping over any lifting some laminate floor and floor boards for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpaengineer Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Is that the cable from the panel to the speech dialler or the speech dialler to the telephone your on about running outside? Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secboy Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 paulI can disable the alarm from the key pad inside,but I wouldn't of thought from the speech dialler cable ,but I do get your drift. Any chance of popping over any lifting some laminate floor and floor boards for us 69178[/snapback] What! Eh! I was a bit confused by your reply!!. As far as a route is concerned, stand back and look at the job like a competition where the winner gets a million quid dont think "direct" route think "any" route------Bet you find a way!!!!!! Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gary Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 dpaengineer Its the cable from the speech dialler to the panel. The telephone socket is safely inside where the speech dialler will be. But as in a lot of cases the main telephone incoming line runs down the outside anyway,so some might say why worry about tne speech dialler cable. I just wondered if there was anyway of maybe disabling the alarm from this cable but I would imagine that impossile? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secboy Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Perhapes some moderators may think the questions are getting a little sensitive for the open forem????????????? Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gary Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 What! Eh! I was a bit confused by your reply!!.As far as a route is concerned, stand back and look at the job like a competition where the winner gets a million quid dont think "direct" route think "any" route------Bet you find a way!!!!!! Sorry paul, I thought you was asking if I could disable the alarm. And the second was a joke as an alternative route would involve a nightmare with laminate floor et,etc.....some challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian.cant Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Its your house and your alarm, you can do what you like! A professional installer would'nt even think about doing this because it goes against all the standards that we have been taught and work to. In many cases it could lead to pretty serious trouble for a professional installer. I wont even go into the reasons why you shouldnt do it from a security point of view, but as ive said its your house do what you want or think about it and do it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Engineer Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 run the cable from the downstairs hall sraight up the outside wall into the loftNO, not being funny but if your gonna do this yourself please do it correctly. Not be an alarm engineer I didn't know the complications if they got to the cableImagine the worst.. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hastings Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I would put the dialler in the loft with the panel, the phone line running outside is fine, BT do it after all. Once the dialler is programmed, you should hardly ever need to get to it. Therefore it does not have to be downstairs with the keypad, it would also be out of sight in the loft, even if an intruder smashed the alarm keypad, the dialler will normally still signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gary Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I would put the dialler in the loft with the panel, the phone line running outside is fine, BT do it after all.Once the dialler is programmed, you should hardly ever need to get to it. Therefore it does not have to be downstairs with the keypad, it would also be out of sight in the loft, even if an intruder smashed the alarm keypad, the dialler will normally still signal. 69225[/snapback] Hastings Thanks for the reply,this was my original idea but I was now going for the Texecom which has the listen in feature and somewhere downstairs would have made more sense. Looking at all the other replies I relise now its a simple case of a bit more hard work and a bit of mess,that will cheer the old woman up!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrick_001 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Hi Gary,had a job like this yesterday. We've done a spot on job of fitting vibration sensors to all the windows and contacts to all the doors with no cable showing anywhere whatsoever.... it's the biggest nightmere of a house you could wish for. NOW THEN..... we've fitted a dialer, it would be an absolute pain in the backside to get the phone line from in the house and it would look a right state, bt have taken an overhead to the house and then clipped it down the front and drilled into the front room. So we've decided to follow their route up the wall and into a loft access wehre the cables run back to the panel. The thing is we all know what happens if the line is damaged and as we'd be "tapping" off the cable bt have put in on the outside in a maner of speaking it really makes no odds in this case. Hope that helps. CCTV Intruder Access Control Tony Hughes, Proprietor, TRADE MEMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian.cant Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 So would i be correct in stating then that this would not comply as you now have a cable as part of your installation which is outside of the protected area? I know that the BT line is outside anyway but thats not part of your install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrick_001 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 It's up to the customer to provide the phone line installation and this isn't part of our quote. However if bt had done it or anyone else it would have been done the same. Now then if BT's cable is outside in the 1st place what difference does it make running mine inside. BT are hardly going to have a tamper cct running through their cable connected to my panel and neither are they going to start putting their cables in steel conduit or ally tude on the front of your house.... so what's the point. If the line wasn't clipped all the way down to waist height and was up out of harms way then obivously things would have been done differently, but I can't see how you can justify going to all the trouble of keeping your line inside with the main incomming bt line clipped on the outside ready to be cut.... what a joke!! As for non-complience, the company's not approved, however even if we were or I was working for an approved company I would be cartain to the toss with nis or ssaib inspector over the practical reasons behind doing it! CCTV Intruder Access Control Tony Hughes, Proprietor, TRADE MEMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gary Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 just to add a slight twist looking at what maverick_001 has mention,would it be O.K to use any spare wires in the new BT cable I would now be runnig as a tamper or is there the problem of BT cable being solid and alarm cable being stranded. Its probabley a bit over the top but maybe if the facility is there why not. The cable run would be between 15 and no more than 20 meters but I could make it shorter if I had to. Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian.cant Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 just to add a slight twist looking at what maverick_001 has mention,would it be O.K to use any spare wires in the new BT cable I would now be runnig as a tamper or is there the problem of BT cable being solid and alarm cable being stranded.Its probabley a bit over the top but maybe if the facility is there why not. The cable run would be between 15 and no more than 20 meters but I could make it shorter if I had to. Gary. 69502[/snapback] If you insist on doing it that way then it wouldnt be a bad idea, the bad idea is to be running a cable outside in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 just to add a slight twist looking at what maverick_001 has mention,would it be O.K to use any spare wires in the new BT cable I would now be runnig as a tamper 69502[/snapback] Run them through a relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gary Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 But as Maverick_001 said if it is running the exact route as BT's and exact same cable,whats the difference? But I guess we will be going round in circles here and you are the pros,so I think I will sleep on it. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gary Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Run them through a relay. 69510[/snapback] Why would I need to do that,could I not just connect in series with the exsisting tamper loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbec Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Why would I need to do that,could I not just connect in series with the exsisting tamper loop. 69512[/snapback] To maintain electrical separation from the telephone wiring. Trade Full Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gary Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Is this essential or just a good idea? I'm not that fussed about the tamper I just thought if the facility was there why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrick_001 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Gary, if the phone line gets chopped either yours clipped down the house or bt's it won't help the dialler will it. OK so lets say that Gary goes to all the trouble of keeping the cable inside, BT's is clipped on the outside and is easy to get to with a pair of snips.... what difference is it going to make really. Gary all puting the tamper in is going to make the alarm go off, personally I wouldn't sugget going up on bt's pole and shorting 2 of the spares together in their junction box and connecting your alarm cable to their incomming line.... I'm sure they'd be a little upset.... but I can see where your comming from and in theory it would be a nice idea, and for a member of the public to be thinking about this... I must say I'm impressed. If you want to clip the cable down next to their's it'll make no odds if the line is cut so if your happy with the way it looks I'd get on with the job before anyone else on here drives you up the wall!!! Best Regards Tony, Proprietor TJ Securities. CCTV Intruder Access Control Tony Hughes, Proprietor, TRADE MEMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gary Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Gary, if the phone line gets chopped either yours clipped down the house or bt's it won't help the dialler will it. OK so lets say that Gary goes to all the trouble of keeping the cable inside, BT's is clipped on the outside and is easy to get to with a pair of snips.... what difference is it going to make really. Gary all puting the tamper in is going to make the alarm go off, personally I wouldn't sugget going up on bt's pole and shorting 2 of the spares together in their junction box and connecting your alarm cable to their incomming line.... I'm sure they'd be a little upset.... but I can see where your comming from and in theory it would be a nice idea, and for a member of the public to be thinking about this... I must say I'm impressed. If you want to clip the cable down next to their's it'll make no odds if the line is cut so if your happy with the way it looks I'd get on with the job before anyone else on here drives you up the wall!!!Best Regards Tony, Proprietor TJ Securities. 69581[/snapback] Once the part is ordered get on with it is what I will do. As regards with the tamper I wasn't going to touch BT's main incoming just twist a spare pair in my cable at the dialler end and connect the panel end in series with the others. At least by an alarm going of while still outside is surely bonus. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Don't just stick the spare pair in the tamper loop, use a relay for electrical seperation. Inteference from the BT line could cause random activations and faults on the panel and also BT wiring can in some circumstances be in a different electrical class to the alarm cabling and shouldn't be mixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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