jb-eye Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Allso raises an interesting point there; users protecting themselves against the failure of the alarm company 31715[/snapback] Should a NACOSS buisness go bust in my area (unlikely) its assets "YOUR CONTRACT" would definatly be picked up by another installation company. Seems you contracted to the wrong installer "buyer beware" jef Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allso Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Lots to reply to: Richl - The engineer manual has some use without the engineer code. Reasons: 1) I can inform myself about my own alarm panel and can have more useful discussions with the installing company about its configuration. I like to have some idea of how things work, thats just the way I am! 2) Its been a source of education to me about alarm systems in general 3) If I fall out with the company, they will change the engineer code, as agreed, and I can change to another company or choose to maintain the panel myself, in which case I'll NEED it!! 4) It provides details of the panel reset procedure if they were to refuse to reset the engineeer code if asked (as far as I know its not locked-in). I therefore don't feel totally bound to them for ever. jb-eye - The first company didn't go bust but were taken over by a major national alarm company (guess who!). I didn't have a maintenance contract at the time, so I wasn't informed about this. This household-name alarm company was one of the companies that declined to support my existing panel!! But if its any consulation I dont have an instalation manual for my boiler at home or at work31787[/snapback] Peter - I recently had a new boiler. The British Gas installer left me a copy of all the manuals. A few weeks later when the boiler was causing problems, his colleague asked to see the manuals so he could see exactly which part number to order. He was glad I had them! I'm not sure this disussion will ever change anybody's views, as they all seem rather fixed. Still, at least said views can have an airing. Allso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevendt Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Hi Dave, obviously, I am in the "it's my alarm camp" and would expect to have access to all documentation including installation and operating manuals for equipment that I own. The programming codes to make use of this information would therefore be needed. I can see that there might be some reluctance to supply manuals if it could led to any liability should the user electrocute himself or "fall off a ladder" but I'm sure that there are ways around that. Personally, I am competent working with electricity and would sign any disclaimer etc. It would also not be my intention to try to approach the manufacturer directly as was the concern on one post. However, I think that it is fundamentally wrong that the user/owner of the system does not have access to the relevent information on a system installed in his home. I can't think of any other item where this is the case. regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Engineer Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 I can't think of any other item where this is the case. Most things only get supplied with a USER manual, your Car being a good example. And yeah there's those Hayes manuals but they don't tell you everything, such as how to repair your engine management system, they just tell you to buy a new one..! Also consider that we don't know you, so giving out such information here is just as bad as handing it out in the street. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevendt Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I had thought about the possibility of someone using the information for criminal purposes but I don't think that is really a valid argument. If I was trying to nobble an alarm then I guess that I'd first have to gain entry, find the panel, open it and enter the codes etc. I don't think that there would be enough time to do this before the thing went off. An intersting debate has started on the whole concept of giving put manuals etc. it'll be interesting to see how it progresses Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Engineer Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 If I was trying to nobble an alarm then I guess that I'd first have to gain entry, find the panel, open it and enter the codes etc. I don't think that there would be enough time to do this before the thing went off. Most systems can be defaulted within 30 seconds. In that time no-one has usually bothered to get out there seat to investigate. So break in, bells ring, default system, 30 seconds later no noise and you have full control. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dunks Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 As an end user who is currently having problems with the installation engineer (he made a hash of the job) the installation manual should be left with the end user, at the very least to allow them to get another engineer in to look at any issues they are having. If you've paid for it, it's your property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Not really, if you got a decent engineer in the first place you wouldn't need to have the manual. Also, a decent installer will have access to hundreds of manuals so should be covered for pretty much any eventuality. Flawed argument. Next........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morph Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 As an end user who is currently having problems with the installation engineer (he made a hash of the job) the installation manual should be left with the end user, at the very least to allow them to get another engineer in to look at any issues they are having. If you've paid for it, it's your property. Many alarm panels do not come with engineer manuals, so you will have not paid for it. Also if you have paid for it it would be listed in the estimate, if I was a betting man my money would be on the fact that its not mentioned in the estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black knight Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Not really, if you got a decent engineer in the first place you wouldn't need to have the manual. Also, a decent installer will have access to hundreds of manuals so should be covered for pretty much any eventuality.Flawed argument. Next........ QFA PAUL THE BLACK KNIGHT "Any comments / opinions posted are my opinion only and do not represent those of my employer or Company." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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